I just love headlines like "Catholic hierarchy taken to task"
HANOVER — Members of reform Catholic groups on Saturday called for a restructuring of the Roman Catholic Church, accusing the church hierarchy of being out of touch with the people they are supposed to represent.
That’s funny, especially since most members of VOTF are out of touch with what the Church teaches.
Among the proposed changes: a more open and inclusive church, including acceptance of women’s ordination and the elimination of clergy’s vows of celibacy and greater laity involvement.
And wanting women’s ordination proves my point. You mostly see these groups hawk married priests as a solution to shortage of priests, but never see them promoting prayer for vocations. Finally they always include the nebulous statement about laity involvement, but never what type of involvement they are talking about. I am aware of nothing as a layman stopping me from praying, getting involved with my parish or my diocese, helping the poor and doing works of mercy. It is a good thing St. Catherine of Siena wasn’t aware that the hierarchy was preventing lay involvement. What they really mean is that they want to be able to control what the Church teaches and influence it theologically. Every heresy in the Church was started by someone with Holy Orders. Groups like VOTF want to change that and allow the laity to start heresies also.
The Saturday morning meeting at Birchwood Manor in Whippany attracted nearly 150 people, members of organizations under the umbrella of the Catholic Organizations for Renewal, a coalition of Roman Catholic groups inspired by Vatican II.
It is obvious that these groups didn’t quite make under the umbrella of Vatican II since their theology is all wet.
While Vatican II formally closed in December 1965 and bishops professed to follow the council’s decrees, Catholic reformists said not enough, if anything, had been done.
"Vatican II is the most authentic teaching of the church as of today," said Theresa Padovano, of the Northern New Jersey Chapter of Voice of the Faithful, a Catholic lay group originally founded in response to the priest sexual abuse in the Archdiocese of Boston.
The decrees of the Vatican II Council "called the church for (a) collegiate (structure), openness, and inclusiveness. Are we seeing this happen?"Padovano asked.
"We have to organize," said Leonard Swidler, representing the Association for the Rights of Catholics in the Church, an organization established in 1979 to foster greater community involvement in the decision-making process of the church.
Besides VOTF the meeting was attended by Call to Action and FutureChurch.
"We offer seven sacraments to men; six sacraments to women. How come?" asked Russ Ditzel of CORPUS, the National Association for an Inclusive Priesthood.
Oh no foiled by the argument for numeric comparison of the sacraments. Just too overwhelming of an argument to counter. Hey why can’t everybody be an ordained priest in the ministerial priesthood. Otherwise we are robbed of the max number of sacraments and of course we must also demand to get sick and be given the Sacrament of Healing. Plus all single people need to immediately get married in order to max out sacramental points.
Moreover, he said, there are some 25,000 married priests in the U.S. more than 100,000 worldwide who are willing but unable to serve due to their marital status. Meanwhile, 25 percent of U.S. parishes and nearly 50 percent worldwide do not have a resident priest.
Wow this is great news. I didn’t know that in the 25 years since the Pastoral Provision was approved that we had 25,000 former Episcopalian and other married Protestant clergy come into the Church. That is a thousand a year. There are only roughly 46,000 priests in the United States and I just had no idea that over half of them were married.
Well actually this number that Mary Ann McCarthy of FutureChuch quoted or just plain made up is silly beyond belief (kind of like FutureChurch). There is actually much less than a 100 married priests currently serving in the United States. She of course mentioned specifically married priests unable to serve but even if you count those that have been laicized and subsequently married this number is just nonsense.
"It’s about time that our church owes up to the fact that a significant part of our clergy are gay and (sexually) active," Ditzel said.
Well we are working on that problem – not giving in to it.
"We are going to have to change the structures of the church," Swidler said. "Otherwise, they won’t find it a home and they won’t be there anymore. And this is happening. Look at France. Look at Germany."
They even make their own counter-arguments for themselves. Pointing to the more progressive oriented Catholic Church in Germany and then complaining about no one going there only makes the case against these reform groups. Heterodoxy is a theological mule that doesnt’t engender offspring.
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If you want to see an example of deformed reform please read the following statement put out by the Catholic League. It is in regards to the extremism put out by SNAP. http://www.catholicleague.org/05press_releases/quarter%203/050912_shouldpriests.htm
When they cite the bit about 25K married priests who cannot serve, I think they were talking about priests who left after Vatican II to get married, but would be glad to renegotiate terms with the Vatican, I guess.
“We offer seven sacraments to men; six sacraments to women. How come?”
True. However, we women have got the only saint who is immaculately conceived, and she’s queen of heaven to boot. So it all balances out.
Most of the people cited in this article are, by reason of their stated beliefs/opinions, self-excommunicated. This is more evidence of the complete futility of this concept. Bring back Bell, Book and Candle and formal Bulls of Excommunication. We have tried making nice and reasoning with them — it doesn’t work. Of course, if catechetics hadn’t been tossed in the trash in the 60’s maybe these folks would be faithful.
Also why don’t these complainers at least have the decency of the protestant revolutionaries and just leave?
Fundamental problem
“…accusing the church hierarchy of being out of touch with the people they are supposed to represent.”
Our shepherds are there to LEAD us, NOT REPRESENT us. The College of Bishops is not some Parliament of the Faithful or House of Delegates or some such body.
The remaining litany of complaints seem to stem from this one misunderstanding of the purpose and structure of the Church.
“The Saturday morning meeting attracted nearly 150 people…”
Oh, wow… 150 people? That’s more than all the youth present at mass at WYD that were cheering for the pope! No wait, it’s not… big surprise.
They had THREE groups, and 150 people? And they merited an article? By those standards, there should be an article written about mass at my parish every day. “150 faithful Catholics gathered today to worship God…”
I bet that maybe 15% of the crowd was under 55. They believe in birth control, abortion and homosexuality; they simply don’t breed. The problem of heterodoxy is quickly taking care of itself.
Naw, usually the numbers work out to 6 and 6. Cuz if you’re a d00d you shouldn’t be getting married AND ordained. Mostly we should just get rid of married deacons, that’d even it up 😉
Lord, I’m SO tired of the feminist whinings. Women have SO much to do in this world, usually we’re being all things to all people, do we really have TIME to be “priests” too?? I think God gave us women ALL a pretty big job to live up to–being the stuff that makes the world work.
I honestly think the church would stop working without us–all those people who’re not priests and bishops… who made them drag their little fannies out of bed as kids, and who forced them to go to church and religious education? WOMEN. If we didn’t force husbands and sons to go to mass when they didn’t want to, they’d all abandon the church when they’re 12 and discover “funner” things to do that arn’t mass. In MOST familial situations I’ve seen, the woman is more religious than the guy and is usually dragging him along. I wonder how many women dragged their husbands into heaven by their lapells.
“We offer seven sacraments to men; six sacraments to women. How come?”
True. However, we women have got the only saint who is immaculately conceived, and she’s queen of heaven to boot. So it all balances out.
Then again, Karen, there is the still more important fact that Sacraments are not like retirement benefits that are “offered”. In the case of Matrimony and Holy Orders, they fit in more with the draft or with jury duty than with some sort of benefit/goodies system that you get with your wireless plan.
THAT oganization isn’t the voice of THIS Faithful.
“We are going to have to change the structures of the church…”
Hmmm. I’ve read a lot of inspirational writings of saints. I never came across a saint who wrote a statment like that one. Whaddaya think? Is that the stuff from which saints are made?
Or Martin Luther?
If it aint broke…….. It doesn’t need to be fixed, painted, revampted, over hauled, tweeked, modified, or cleared out. Those who look to this kind of change in the Church need to just go find another one. Don’t stay if you’re not happy. It’s that simple. Go where they cater to your every desire and need. Maybe not spiritually will that happen, but then who knows?
“Heterodoxy is a theological mule that doesn’t engender offspring” Brilliant line!
“Look at France. Look at Germany.”
Look at Africa, which will be sending priests to the US soon because they have TOO MANY vocations (Can there be such a thing? But I digress).
Can it be that the reason for this abundance of vocations is *gasp* orthodoxy? Can the abundance of young men in the FSSP seminaries be attributed to orthodoxy? Ummmmmm…yeah!
150 people at a meeting deserves newspaper space? Maybe the Daily Record should send a reporter to my Back to CCD night where we’ll have 150 people who want to learn about how to bring their kids up in the REAL Church. A little fair and balanced reporting?
“Every heresy in the Church was started by someone with Holy Orders. Groups like VOTF want to change that and allow the laity to start heresies also.”
LOL! Thanks for your usual good fisk, Jeff!
Also why don’t these complainers at least have the decency of the protestant revolutionaries and just leave?
I love this line Jim, I use it with frequency. You wanna make the rules? You die on the cross for all of us first.
Drake: you are completely right…I cringed when I saw that line about “representing” us. The last thing I need is someone telling me what I want to hear, giving me whatever I desire. I need to be challenged with Truth, driven like a disobedient cur back into the embrace of Christ. I’ve got 535 representatives plus a President…I don’t need anyone in the Church imprinting heaven with my image, thank you very much.
Whippany is right next to my town and I knew nothing of this meeting. I consider myself faithful–I at least go to Church every Sunday and strive (mostly) Heavenward…but since inclusivity is their mantra I would figure one’s degree of faithfulness would matter little. I guess my invitation got lost in the mail.
Last night, ironically enough, I went to a Theology on Tap lecture called “Will the real Vatican II please stand up?” detailing the abuses suffered since the council and citing the more traditional aspect of the conciliar documents. It was a bit reactionary but better than this VOTF drivel.