With full responsibility, authority and faculties of an Administrator of ********, appointed by Bishop *****, for the sake of the common good of the Church, the parish and the diocese, with the approval of the Bishop, I (very sadly) officially invite you To leave the parish ***** and the diocese of ******.
Was this statement issued to a:
- Wildly heterodox parish like St Joan of Arc’s in Minnesota
- A parish that kneels during the Agnus Dei?
If you picked number two – congratulations you have been paying attention.
Dom has some information and commentary on this story.
I just don’t understand some peoples aversion to kneeling? As the old quote goes "A man is never so tall as when he kneels before God." Though at times as I wrote in another post it seems to be just contrariness. To do the opposite of what is recommended by the GIRM.
On a side issue have you ever noticed the phenomenon of faux-kneeling? That is where during the times at Mass that we should kneel people will kind of crouch down instead. This way they appear to be lowered down without actually kneeling. Now of course the elderly or those who are physically unable to kneel shouldn’t even try. But the faux kneelers are usually also the ones who can sprint away from Mass before the final hymn. That I notice this type of stuff shows that I am not paying attention to the Mass as I should, but it is hard not to notice when the faux-kneeler is right in front of you. I am curious though as to why some people choose to do this.
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Sounds like Chesterton:
The crux and crisis is that man found it natural to worship; even natural to worship unnatural things. The posture of the idol might be stiff and strange; but the gesture of the worshipper was generous and beautiful. He not only felt freer when he bent; he actually felt taller when he bowed. Henceforth anything that took away the gesture of worship would stunt and even maim him for ever. Henceforth being merely secular would be a servitude and an inhibition. If man cannot pray he is gagged; if he cannot kneel he is in irons. We therefore feel throughout the whole of paganism a curious double feeling of trust and distrust. When the man makes the gesture of salutation and of sacrifice, when he pours out the libation or lifts up the sword, he knows he is doing a worthy and a virile thing. He knows he is doing one of the things for which a man was made.
[GKC, The Everlasting Man CW2:244, emphasis added]
“…sprint away from Mass before the final hymn…”
Where I’m from, they call that the Judas Shuffle.
God Bless,
I’m confused. How can a bishop simply dismiss parishioners from the parish and diocese? There doesn’t appear to be any canonical way to do this, short of excommunication, which isn’t being brought to bear here…
Margaret,
I don’t understand that myself. I don’t see canonically how this could be done and I am sure that this will be challenged by the parishoners to the Vatican.
If someone can’t go to Mass in another diocese I wonder if that means that there Sunday obligation has been dispenced by the Bishop?
I guess we should now be waiting for the proscriptions of other “unauthorized, divisive” pulbic acts of piety such as hand holding, excessive fellowship at the sign of peace, orans posture and hand raising from the pews… NOT
Re: faux kneelers: I don’t know if you mean peple like me, but I put both knees on the kneeler, but rest my derriere on the seat. I have a really, really, really bad back and it hurts to fully kneel. It may not be so bad, though. I know that all over Europe, in the choirs, there were apparently little seats that the monks could lean back into (I assume partially “sitting” as I was) while still kneeling.
However, I swear I never crouch! It’s always both knees on the kneeler!
Then there its close cousin, the faux-genuflection: put the left foot slightly forward and do a deep knee-bend while keeping both feet planted.
…then there are the things that are permitted but for some reason are frowned upon. When returning to my pew from receiving Our Lord, I remain kneeling for a few minutes in thanksgiving, AND THEN SIT DOWN. There is this propensity in our parish to remain kneeling continually until after the celebrant has purified the sacred vessels and then taken his seat, then all congregants move as one from a kneeling to a sitting position. During large masses this can be quite a while, and even cause worshippers to sing communion songs from a kneeling position which seems difficult at best to me….
In my parish the parish priest has put in kneelers that you can’t actually kneel on, you can only do the thing where you look as if you are on one of those kneely-chairs.
Liberal Austria or lukewarm England?
No, Poland.
“Where I’m from, they call that the Judas Shuffle”
The official liturgical dance of the Iscariot Society. 🙂
I did some further digging on this on my blog. It goes back to 2004, when the old priest of that parish retired. The bishop then took away the Tridentine Mass from them.
(despite the booming (because?) of that Tridentine Mass parish, mind you)
I look forward to the heavy handedness coming soon to my area- they will have to lift me out the church from my kneeling position- I dont give a damn for human respect. Already I hear people laughing and talking behind me when I refuse to stand during the entire distribution of the Eucharist. Hell if I care. My pride is to kneel before God or let me die in shame.
FZ – I obviously don’t know anything about the local missal instructions for Poland, but while it may be permissable under canon law to sit after Holy Communion, it is not something one should ever do (except those with bad backs, etc.). The important thing isn’t whether the priest is sitting or the vessels have been fully purified, but whether the Blessed Sacrament is still exposed on the altar. If it is (ie, if the tabernacle is still open or the Host has been placed in a monstrance for adoration following Mass), one should remain kneeling. If not, if the Sacrament has been removed, one may sit whenever one finishes praying. But one should never sit before the exposed Blessed Sacrament.
I don’t know where you all live, but reading all this puts icewater in my veins! I can’t imagine not being able to kneel before and after receiving communion. I hope this foolishness never comes to Detroit!
Paul:
We have a Eucharistic Adoration chapel, and there are kneelers and chairs. Should one sit in there while the Blessed Sacrament is exposed? I always kneel by the way.
People should stand during the Agnus Dei because they should be singing the Agnus Dei, and the appropriate posture for singing is standing. We went through this a year or two ago at my FSSP parish. Those who wish to kneel may certainly do so, but standing is the better of the two.
On faux-kneeling and deep knee bends…
My fiancee and I both have terrible knees. I mean getting through my work day is agony, each and every day! I kneel during the Consecration and from the end of the Agnus Dei until I get up to enter the Communion line. But when I return to my pew, I place my knees on the kneeler and my butt on the lip of the pew. I don’t want the pain distracting me during that time, since I only get 10 minutes or so with my Lord in that most intimate way.
My fiancee can’t genuflect, or at least if she tried, she’d NEVER be able to get up and into the pew. So she does her best, offers the pain up, and doesn’t think twice about folks who tsk-tsk her “deep knee bend”. While our parish is undergoing renovations, our Masses are in the gym (concrete floor.) Because of the position kneeling on the foam pads, she CAN”T kneel during Mass. So she stands, a posture of respect she learned from our nearby Maronite parish. I know parishioners think she’s being disrespectful, but she offers up that disdain from folks who don’t know what’s going on.
Think twice before you question another’s posture at Mass. There might be a surgery or accident you don’t know about in their history.
Actually, Franklin, kneeling is just as good as standing for singing. In both cases, the torso is upright and full-length. Sitting is the only problematic posture I know of for singing.
“In my parish the parish priest has put in kneelers that you can’t actually kneel on, you can only do the thing where you look as if you are on one of those kneely-chairs.
Liberal Austria or lukewarm England?
No, Poland.”
When I was in poland I noticed ALL the kneelers were designed for penitential kneeling (you have to hold onto the back of the pew in front of you, otherwise you will fall down. This was not just in newer churches (like the Divine Mercy shrine in Krakow) but in the most ancient of churches as well (the Mariacki in Krakow, St. Stanislaus Cathedral, St. Florians, the parish Church of Wadowice, etc.) Are these “penitential kneelers” the same thing as the type that resemble the so-called “kneeling chair”? I never found those to be comfortable in the least.
I’m sorry, but there are a lot of people out there who are just too plain lazy to keep their butts off the pew seats. Present company excluded, of course. Or have a low pain tolerance or bad knees and just can’t hack it. I include myself in the last one. I’ve had 5 knee surgeries and by the time they are placing the Host back in the tabernacle I’m squirming like a red wiggler. I like to think there is grace there somewhere.
What drives me crazy is the “head bob” when going up to accept communion, if anything is done at all. Men, women, and children all showing their deep respect for the solemnity of Christ in the Eucharist by simply giving Jesus the ol’ once up and down of the melon. Gives me goosebumps I tell ya!
We don’t have kneelers in the choir loft, or space to kneel, either. We are crammed in there like unto the sardines in the can. I know standing is the alternate gesture of respect, but honestly, it feels odd to stand up for everything. So sometimes I do the “sit and pretend I’m kneeling”, or the “sit and put my head down really really low” thing.
As for bowing the head before receiving Communion — um, how many people even know how to do a profound bow? Just about as many as have been taught to kneel in an aisle without falling over, probably. I bowed myself a little deeper than the folks were expecting on Sunday, and very nearly took out the chalice with my head. Yeah, that would’ve been reverent. I’m starting to think bowing the head is infinitely safer for the Precious Blood.
Kate B,
I’ll grant you that kneeling is a close second for singing, but based on my experience (and the opinions of a couple of FSSP priests who are also top-notch liturgists) you’ll never convince me that standing isn’t best. 😉
I’d say along with the faux-kneeling and the faux-genuflection the worst thing out there is the faux-sign of the cross. You’ve seen it. You’d think they were swatting flies.
And there is NO injury, handicap or disability that excuses that one. Drives me crazy when I see that, especially after one has received the Eucharist. When I finally graduate and teach the young ones, they will most assuredly learn to kneel, genuflect and make the Sign of the Cross with reverence.
I can only speak for myself. Whenever I am pregnant (four pregnancies so far) after about 18 weeks, if I kneel during the consecration, I am going to fall over and pass out during the Sign of Peace.
Apparently the kneeling posture interrupts my circulation in such a way that after I stand again, I become lightheaded, I see stars, everything goes black, and the next thing I know, I’m down with my head between my knees.
Because of this, whenever I am pregnant, I faux-kneel. I figure God probably would rather I not crack my head open on the pew in front of me or the bench behind me so I’m actually alive to receive Communion and not interrupting Mass to receive Last Rites while someone who forgot to turn off his cell phone calls for an ambulance.
Therefore you can rest assured that all those faux-kneelers must be pregnant. Even the men.
Bum kneeling, yeah… There’s a church in my diocese where you can’t do anything *but* bum-kneel. My mother was in the parish as a child and wondered why everyone was bum-kneeling. A few years ago, we went to the church for a talk by our bishop and she discovered *why*. It was built in the 50s by someone who didn’t give any thought to enough room for the human body to fit between the pews.
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