Pope Maximus gives a blessing at Sunday mass in Cairo July 2, 2006. Pope Shenouda, the head of the Coptic Church in Egypt, has said that Pope Maximus is not a rightful Pope and has asked the Egyptian authorities to get involved. REUTERS/Nasser Nouri (EGYPT)
I guess this is like the Anglican church being concerned about schism.
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The hierarchy titles in the Coptic Church can be confusing. They use the term “Pope” instead of Patriarch, so it is unclear from the article whether they are referring to the Coptic Catholic or Catholic Orthodox Church. If they are Coptic Catholics, they are just arguing over who is to be the Patriarch, not meaning to supplant Rome. However, since they are asking for the intervention of the Egyptian government, my best guess would be Orthodox.
BUT he does have nice vestments anda tiara! Maybe I should get some
Why, I would look grand in that shiny hat. The Coptics are badly persecuted by the Muslims in Egypt. I’ve never heard them call themselves Catholic.
Pope Shenouda is a Coptic Christian. It would be a misnomer to call him “Orthodox,” because his Coptic church is divided from the Orthodox communion. It would be more accurate to call him an “Oriental Copt.”
There is a small Coptic Catholic Church in union with Rome. Hence, some but not all Copts are Catholic.
Quick, call the copts!
Some info here might help to clarify this. I’m no expert, but I’m somewhat well-read in the subject.
The Oriental Orthodox Church is a communion of six Churches which, since 451, have been in schism from the Catholic Church. In that year, they were condemned by the Council of Chalcedon for adhering to Monophysitism, though it is now generally agreed that this term is a misnomer and that the schism resulted from political and terminological differences, rather than dogmatic discrepancies.
Among these six Churches, a primacy of honor is accorded the Pope of Alexandria, who is Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church. (“Coptic ‘Orthodox'” is not a misnomer; the Church is always known by this name.) The current Coptic Orthodox Patriarch is Pope Shenouda.
In 1741, several Copts converted to Catholicism, and thus was founded the modern Coptic Catholic Church, an Eastern Church in communion with the Holy See which celebrates the Alexandrian Rite.
I don’t know who this “Pope Maximus” is. The current Catholic incumbent is His Holiness Antonios Cardinal Naguib, Pope of Alexandria and the Patriarch of the Holy Apostolic See of Saint Mark the Evangalist of the Coptic Catholic Church.
Hope that helps.
That’s a copt-out!
great article, thanks for sharing!
unfortunately, there are many big issues with copts–both ‘sectarian’ issues (as in ‘copts vs muslim egyptians’) and internal issues, like copt vs copt and coptic orthodox vs coptic protestant (which i am, btw).
for example, check out the mp3 on this page (if you understand arabic, anyway!)http://sallybishai.blogspot.com/2006/07/is-it-just-me-or-is-he-dissing.html . it’s basically an orthodox priest dissing protestants, and asking them to sign a form certifying that they aren’t christians. and that’s just one of lots of shenanigans this paranoid priest is going on about.
sigh.
love in Christ,
sally
ps- for more on the coptic church, feel free to hit http://www.xculturemag.com and go to ‘channel x’ and watch (online) the entire documentary ‘children of kemet: the copts,culture and democracy of egypt.”
Some statements mentioned above are false. Coptic Catholic, is a branch of the Catholic CHurch and NOT a branch from the coptic church. The Coptic Church, and see of St. Mark does not awknowledge this heritc Maximos not only because he proclaims himslef as an archbishop. The Heretic Maximus used to be a reader of the coptic church, but was later excumunicated from the Coptic Church in the late 70’s. Traveling to America, Maximus was “ordained” a bishop in a church called “the true Orthodox Christians” However he was ordinained by excummanicated orthodox bishops. Hence, his ordination invalid. No heretic of this sort, NO council of Satan, No council of Maximus will currupt the Lord’s Church. Let ask Him (God) to disperse the council of Maximus, as he disperesed the council of Achtipohel (Old Testament) and Ask God to stregthen His Holiness Pope SHenouda and the Holy Coptic Synod, and the members and congregation of the COptic CHurch during the turmoils.
Sally Bishai it saddens me deeply to here a fellow Egyptian Christian to criticize the Copts at this moment. His Holiness Pope SHenouda III, the pope of the Coptic CHurch, has the right to defend teh Coptic Church and the people in the Coptic Church against heresies of this sort. ALthough, you may feel that by fighting and dismissing these heresies it causes tension recall the verse of St. Paul to St. Timothy: Chp 1 vs 3 “As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer” Following the example of St. Paul His holiness Pope SHenouda is dismissing and discrediting the false doctrines. The Coptic Church never attacks the individual, but the thought. They only attack the individual if he is a heretic proclaim something which he is not, such as Maximus. Sandy Bishai you may feel the that Coptic is against protestants, but in reality we are against the false doctrine which denies the 7 sacraments, denies the apostolic lineage (I’ll explain later), denies intercession. My sister, The Coptic Church has nothing but truth. To Post information to degrade Christ’s Church truly is sad… But the Lord will protect His Church for many years to Com. The apostolic lineage means that the church was founded by Christ through and apostle. For exampe the Catholic is founded by ST. Peter. , Another example the Coptic Church through St. Mark… there are many examples to show how the apostolic Churches are valid. But Protestants are very similar to this heretic maximum, all they do is break apart from the church and create themselves priest. But Christ responds saying: Hebrews 5:4 “And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was.” Was Maximus or the protestant priest called by God,,, explain how don’t say that God came to him and told him.. And Christ will also say: Exodus 3: “14 Then he said, �Who made you a prince and a judge over us?” I responded aggressively because during these times of persecution, during these times of heresies I would expect that we Egyptian Christians would hold hands and fight this heretic who dares to make fun and ridicule the COptic Pope. But what happened Sally, your adding to the ridicule…
I am sorry, but truly this upset me
Dear Christian brethern, Grace to you and Peace from God our Father in Heaven. Do not fear because Christ has overcome the world. Saint Augustine of Hippo once said “I conquor the world when I fear nothing and desire nothing in it”. This is absolutely true. This great saint and common father of the Church (before all schism when we were all One Universal and Apostolic Church), wrote great articles on repentance and reconciliation with our very Loving God. I am a Coptic Orthodox Christian born and raised in the holy land of Egypt, the land that our Lord Himself visited and blessed along with the pure Theotokos Ever-Virgin Saint Mary and the elderly celebate carpenter Saint Joseph during the persecution of King Herod the Great of Judea. Our Lord is a God of Love, Peace and Joy. He does not want us to fear or be in agony or sorrow. He foretold us in the Gospels that “in the world their shall be tribulation but fear not I have overcome the world”. False prophets, false messiahs, false teachers, false preachers, false clergy will come in every generation–this should not surprise you at all because He already warned us about it all. Someone like Max Michel (aka Maximus the heretic) is nothing like the heretics of our forefathers times like Arius or Nestorius the heresarchs of history. But our saintly Apostolic fathers Pope Athanasius and Pope Cyril of Alexandria overcame them and their heresy through the power of Christ our God. I know dear sisters and brothers that ridicule to the great Shepherd of Shepherds and Father of the Fathers (i.e. His Holiness the Pope) is something that would hurt us all because it attacks God Himself but let us remember that “Vengenence is Mine says the Lord, I will repay”. God does not need our defense, He is extremely capable of defending His Holy Name. We are mere dust and ashes nothing but a passing shadow, who are we to defend God Almighty? But I do understand your position and feel your pain because the hurt and ridicule is shared by all the believers in Christ all over the world. Remember that an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us since we, the Christians living in this earth and those of us residing in Paradise are the Sacred Body of Christ. We are linked to each other and to our saints in Christ.
As a side note, the title of Pope first originate from the Coptic Orthodox Church when it was first used in 232 A.D. to refer to the then Senior Bishop, Pope Heraclas of Alexandria. The papacy of Alexandria began with Saint Mark the Apostle through the 2 millenia until Pope Shenouda III, may God establish him upon his Apostolic Throne. The title of pope carries spirituality, holiness, love, affection from children to their father as the title literally means “Daddy”. So that is our Coptic Orthodox Christian understanding of the title of Pope. The title of Pope in Rome, Italy was first used by Bishop Marcellinus (d. 304) who was the first Bishop of Rome which sources show used the title of pope (Encyclopedia). If you can see, it is some 72 years (304-232=72) after it was first used in Alexandria, Egypt so technical we have the “pattened rights to the Title of Pope” (Hulelluia!) But the use of the title of Pope in Rome was not popularily used until after the first millenia before that he was simply known as the Bishop of Rome while the others great Patriarchs were the Bishop of Antioch, Bishop of Jerusalem and Bishop of Constantinople. The only one officially known by this title at an official Church Gathering was Pope Saint Alexander of Alexandria at the Holy Ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325 A.D.
Another point of interest: The proper term to describe us is MIAphysite NOT [mono]physite. Saint Cyril of Alexandria our Common Father was the one who heavily used this term in theology to describe the union of the two natures in Christ when the Church was all One happy family. We did nothing except keep that same tradition that our holy Father, Pope Cyril of Alexandria passed on to us from Pope Saint Athanasius the Apostolic, the Defender of the Faith. Pope Saint Dioscorus of Alexandria was unjustly tortured by the Emperor Marcian of Constantinople so that he would forget the Traditional Faith of the Fathers and accept the new and absure interpretation of theology as presented then by the Tome of Leo. The Tome of Leo seemed to mimic the thought pattern and wording of Nestorius the heretic which is why we did not accept it because it seemed to split Christ effectively into two persons. We believe that Christ is God the Logos Incarnate who became Man to saved us from our sins. Also we believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is perfect in His Divinity and perfect in His Humanity, He is 100% God and 100% Man. He is like us in all things expect for sin which He does not commit.
A final note: we did not schism from the Universal Church but rather with the Churches of Rome and Constantinople. We are all still part of the Universal and Apostolic Church mentioned in the Niceneo-Constantinopolitan Creed (381 A.D.). We should remember that the Church of Rome while claiming to be the Universal Church is not and has never been the Universal Church because Christians of non-Roman background existed everywhere before its establishment: their were Christians in Antioch,Syria and Alexandria, Egypt long before Christianity came to Rome, Italy by Saint Paul the Apostle. But we are all still one family in Christ.