In the post Motu Proprio reations for the liberalization of the 1962 missal are quite instructive. Pretty much the bishops you expected to act positively have and the ones that you would expect to act negatively have. No surprises there. It was also interesting to hear Raymond Arroyo writing in the WSJ reported that Bishop William S. Skylstad the current head of the USCCB "flatly told the pope that the U.S. bishops opposed any revival of the old rite"
The negative reactions mostly have a common thread that having both an ordinary and extraordinary form of the Mass for the Latin rite would cause division. No doubt there is some thruth to this since there are some 1962 missal onlyists who look down on the ordinary form of Mass as there will be some onlyists that look down on the older rite. But the argument about division seems rather odd since I would ask why are they worrying about it now?
The reality is there has already been liturgical division for years and that in many cases little was done, if anything, to rectify it. The experimentation and anything goes attitude that has been associated with the new Mass has created something fairly new in Catholic circles – that is parish shopping. Now I am not one to glorify older days because they were older days. No doubt before the implementation of the newer missal that the older rite was not always celebrated in a manner not worthy of it. Priests just going through the motions will always be a problem, though frankly I am amazed by those who do celebrate Mass each day in a worthy manner without falling into complacency. The sixties though were a time of change for change sake and Vatican II coinciding with this termultuos time had quite a synergetic effect.
But the decades that followed did little to correct for this massive bit of oscillation and while they are damped down from some of the wildest oscillations there is still much work to be done. I know just within my own diocese that the liturgical celebration of Mass varies widely in the different parishes I visit. It is sometimes hard to believe that they are all suppose to be based on the same liturgical books. Night at the Liturgical Improv is much more common than "read the black, do the red." The only real consistency you can expect at Mass is to hear a song by Haugen, Daas, or one of the other modern standards in so-called liturgical music. Though I have seen a decline in some of the more egregious liturgical abuses, especially after Redemptionis Sacramentum – your mileage may very.
Besides the celebration of the Mass there is also a wide divergence in what the Church teaches and what is taught at RCIA, CCD, other classes, and of course homilies. It is one thing to "offer it up" for banal music at Mass and and quite another to hear preached or taught doctrines that are not exactly orthodox. Experimentation didn’t stop at the liturgy but extended to all of parish life. Then there are the diocesan and other retreat centers that are so infected with fads and new agey feel good crap that would help propagate spiritual poison among the parishes and trickle down to the parishioner.
As a result of much of this parish shopping has become the norm with both sides of the liturgical divide looking for parishes that have the liturgy they want. Seeing postings on blogs from people requesting information on orthodox parishes in cities they are moving to have become common. There is something quite wrong with that picture and yet we have bishops worrying about an impending liturgical divide. I do wonder where these episcopal Rip Van Winkles have been?
I really do admire those who stick with their local parishes despite problems knowing that regardless of how bad the music is and how the liturgy is celebrated that it is still the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and that they are still receiving the Holy Eucharist. Mother Teresa talked about Jesus in his ‘distressing disguise’ and some Masses unfortunately bring that phrase to mind for me. I wish that I was a tenth as holy as those who are able to do this and mange to be patient and prayerful at Mass. I have a long way to go before I can put away my liturgical checklist and wishing to hunt down members of the parish’s choir after Mass and asking them if they have ever actually read any of the Church’s documents on sacred music. To not come up with some snarky mental reply when the priests starts asking if there is anybody visiting or whose birthday it is at the conclusion of Mass. Though I have made a little progress to that end. I once heard Jimmy Akin talking about handling this problem which must be more difficult for someone who knows every nuance of the liturgy. He said that he realized that it is not God’s will that the liturgy be a source of frustration and that this gives him more patience. For now prudence dictates that I mostly avoid the parishes most convenient to where I live and attend the one downtown where I went to RCIA.
Now I am not all doom and gloom and I don’t see the current situation worsening, but that things are moving in the right direction – albeit slowly. I just hope more bishops will realize that we are already in a liturgical divide and tying to frustrate the 1962 missal is not going to make the situation better.
29 comments
I also appreciated Alicia’s comment–I belong to my parish choir, and I am a cantor as well. I don’t choose the music, and I don’t like some of it. But at least our music director knows how to play the old music, including chant, so I sometimes have the joy of singing wonderful music.
Several years ago, when we had an assistant pastor who knew Latin, we did a Novus Ordo mass in chant.
I live in the Greensburg (Pennsylvania) diocese, where requests for an indult Mass have always been denied. Our previous bishop would always ask his Priests’ Council whether he should allow the indult Mass, and the council always said “no.” We have a looming priest shortage, and our new bishop won’t send the few seminarians to the St. Vincent Seminary, which is in our diocese and which has recently become more orthodox. So what does all this add up to? Well, it’s hard to be optimistic. With fewer priests, there will be a reason to refuse any request. The high altar was removed from my parish church 40 years ago, along with the altar rail. (At least the wreckers left the stained glass.) St. Vincent Archabbey, down the road, which supplies the priest for our parish, does have a few priests who could say Mass in the extraordinary rite. But will our good but very overworked pastor be willing to consider it? And would anyone else (besides me) in the parish even care?
feel better?
Well put. I have made good strides to where I don’t get angry anymore and sometimes I merely notice abuses without having to dwell on them. But the worst part is having the kids know. I have made the mistake of griping in front of my kids and they pickup my bad habits of looking at the wrong instead of the right. In fact we almost switched parishes, but have stuck it out so far. Although last week’s homily may re-open that debate. My line is always “thank God I am Catholic, without the Eucharist, that ‘service’ would have been a waste”
I can certainly sympathize with the desire to not cause division, but we may have look the problem square in the face and seriously entertain the possibility that that ship has sailed.
This whole “let’s not cause division” argument is, to me, wildly specious at best. Parishes from one corner of the USA to another have Mass in English and Spanish/Portuguese/Vietnamese/French and somehow these are not torn asunder.
Furthermore, if there IS division, it’s because the division predates the freeing of the TLM. It’s what investment-types call an “unrealized loss.” Just because you haven’t sold a stock that has plummeted in value doesn’t mean you haven’t lost any money, only that you’ve refused to acknowledge it.
-J.
We drive about ten miles to our usual parish (the local legit Tridentine parish is also about ten miles, in the opposite direction), although we have a parish practically around the block. We’ve been to it once or twice, when Cacciaguida’s school had a Red Mass there, and when somebody was carless and needed to walk to Mass. What I found was that the effort of ignoring the goofy stuff was too great for my nerves, which have enough to do in coping with depression. The question of taking the children to a Mass full of abuses also weighed against it. Sometimes I wonder if I’m not taking it too easy on myself, but it would be very miserable to go to St. Huggybear’s and spend the rest of every Sunday with a headache and a churning stomach.
It helps me to think that one of the Apostles screwed up the first mass by receiving in a state of mortal sin and leaving early. Yet, Jesus, for the Glory of the Father and for the sake of even Judas, allowed it to happen.
In charity, please realize that some of the members of the choir may also be cringing at the selections. Most parishes subscribe to one or the other of the “liturgical guidelines” (suggested music for the day’s liturgy) published by such powerhouses as GIA or OCP. It takes a real effort on the part of the pastor to make changes in the music, and frankly, many of them don’t quite understand just how important it actually is. Meanwhile, back at choir rehearsal, I will occasionally quote from the Vatican documemts only to get blank looks or sighs..
In my neck of the woods, I look out my bedroom window and see the church spire on the next street. My walk to church would literally take 1 minute. Yet I pile the clan in car and drive miles away. Perhaps I’m exacerbating the situation, but I think it is worth it to avoid near occasions of sin.
I think you’re right to find another parish if you’re getting edgy. The thing is that when something STRIKES you as so wrong as to be abusive, that hurts spiritually, psychologically (because you’re supposed to be in a “safe” place) and sometimes even physically. And if it happens often enough you begin to get jumpy–because you’ve been “hit” before…
Many people are trapped for lack of choices. I am spoiled enough to have 2 churches in walking distance from my home! I choose among 4 churches for daily Mass–they’re at different times! There is no excuse for non-attendance around here, and there’s not much of one for remaining and complaining, either.
Blessed are the stuck, for there is no doubt that their cries will reach God! I know of parishes where prayer and perseverence brought them wonderful change!
Alice,
Very good point. We sometimes forget that not all members of the choir (or the parish, for that matter) are complicit in liturgical abuse. Even some composers that have written garbage do not necessarily stand by their prior work today.
Thank you, Jeff. I just returned from the NPM national convention wanting to rip my own ears off. I appreciate the call for patience. Unfortunately, the people running the music in most parishes are the same people teaching in the public schools, and I don’t have a lot of faith in them, either. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit will ultimately protect the church.
From the liturgical wasteland that is the Rochester Diocese, there is no realistic option. 2 hours from any orthodox ordinary, much less extraordinary mass. It ain’t pretty, but we go to our local parish. It is actually better than the alternatives. Though I could go to the Benedictine abby that is 30 minutes away. But, that isn’t what we’re called to do, and, I am tired of running. So, I put up with the cruddy music (I had to leave the choir after a year, I just couldn’t stand it) and I am quietly working with our Pastoral Administrator to knock down the worse abuses. At least the Eucharist is confected validly and the mass is licit. That said, it is what it is.
I have to agree with you, Al. The point is that if it were not for the pope, we would just have to sit and bear it for another generation. By issuing the Motu, Pope Benedict XVI has spoken for the voiceless and that is a great act of Christian charity.
I have had very unpleasant experiences trying to urge priests to be more orthodox. There is a truly ugly side to the sacharin Spirit of Vatican II. The spirit of welcome is open to everyone but the devout and they are not above ridiculing you to your face.
The Motu will end this division, not exacerbate it.
Well said Mr. Jeff.
Though my only qualm is you spelled Haas’ name as ‘Daas’. Are you still subconsciously referring to the ‘Haugen-Haas Ice Cream’? 😉
Jeannine,
Seriously. I’m a music director in the Greensburg diocese (in Ford City). What a coinkyndink.
Some years ago, I wrote an email to my bishop noting the severe abuses in my parish. He was rather new so I wasn’t sure how he’d respond. He immediately wrote back and urged my wife and I continue our search; to keep moving from parish to parish until we found the right one. Grumbling, we followed his advice and continued our parish hopping.
What we didn’t know was that he was busy re-assigning priests. Frankly, I don’t know what happened to some of them but today we’ve been members at a parish across town for over four years that has very few abuses.
The bishop directed us to parish hop; good advise as I was seriously looking at considering Orthodox churches!
This is from last weekend’s bulletin found in the diocese where I’ll be moving to.. Sigh.
A Message from Father Ron
I feel conflicted about Pope Benedict’s recent announcement that he was removing the restrictions on celebrating the old form of the Latin Mass. Beginning September 14,2007, it will be permissible to celebrate the Mass following the Roman Missal promulgated by Blessed John XXIII in 1962.
I commend Pope Benedict for his effort to bring unity among Christians, especially within the Catholic Church. Several other issues (ecumenism, religious liberty, sharing of power with bishops) need to be resolved before traditional catholics return to full union with Rome. Time will tell if this gesture will bring about reconciliation and unity.
At the same time I wonder if treating the old Latin Mass as an extraordinary expression of our current liturgy is the best approach. Might it be better to treat the Traditional Catholics as a separate rite. Already several groups, Maronites, Ethiopians, Aremenians, and Byzantine, are in union with Rome and worship using their own rites, often in their ethnic language.
Early comments on Pope Benedict’s announcement
have been indicating that a use of the Roman Missal of 1962 also means adhering to the practices of that time — communion on the tongue, kneeling for communion, no girl altar servers, only clergy (deacons, priest, bishops) as lectors and Eucharistic ministers, perhaps head coverings for women. I do not see where all of this will be helpful for the Church. It is possible that some of these issues will be clarified before September 14th.
Another issue is that a number of priests, me included, have not studied Latin. What may emerge are personal parishes. Our parish is a territorial parish. In other words there is a geographical boundary to our parish. As pastor I have a duty to all Catholics living in our boundaries whether they are registered or not. The Newman Center is an example of a personal parish. People are members of the parish because of a specific ministry. I could envision the St. Cloud Metro Area having one parish open to all, regardless of where they live, who desire worshiping through the Latin Mass.
I struggle when I hear people say that the Latin Mass brings out the depth of the mystery of the Eucharist, the prayers are more beautiful and the Mass is more reverent. If Mass in a different language helps one realize the depth of the mystery of the Eucharist why are people not attending the Spanish Masses in the area? Our English prayers can certainly be written more poetically. And what makes for a reverent Mass? Is reverence solely in genuflections, prolonged elevations, hushed worship areas, and little congregation participation? Isn’t reverence the attitude we bring to the liturgy?
Okay, I have vented. As with all things we need to surrender ourselves to God’s will. May the Holy Spirit guide us in worshiping God and building the kingdom of God. Some more thoughts next week.
Have a peace filled week! Ron
Excellent post.
Is it more reverent to worship in a “hushed” fashion?
Well, yes! How could anyone who’s read the Bible not understand that?
Along the lines of aquinasadmirer, here is a lovely little logic-free comment from a local pastor in a Catholic Church bulletin regarding the Motu Proprio:
“With that crucial need for the Eucharist being
unmet weekend after weekend all around the world, I could not comprehend the recent option to allow priests to celebrate Mass in Latin. It seemed to me like a doctor facing a patient with serious skin cancer and saying �We really need to get you a hair implant.�”
http://www.sancarloscathedral.net/bulletin/913080%20Bulletin%20July%2015.pdf
Huh??? Boy what a stretch that anti-Motu comment is…Not only are they not being taught Latin in the seminaries, they must not be getting any classes in Logic either…
Ygnacia, it wouldn’t hurt to try to understand that priest’s circumstances. His practical reality is in chaos. It doesn’t sound like an “anti” comment to me, but a “what about our most immediate needs?” concern. You see him as illogical. He waits for some common-sense changes.
“I could not comprehend the recent option to allow priests to celebrate Mass in Latin.”
How does allowing the option for priests to say the Tridentine Mass affect the number of priests worldwide? The stretch in logic here is what does one have to do with the other? Is there some special Motu Proprio that should be written instead to somehow increase the number of priests?
Yes, this priest’s order of importance is differnent than the Pope’s, but is it prudent to put that difference of opinion in the church bulletin, thereby influencing people against what the Pope has written?
Our Pope is a very wise man, he did not do this lightly, and who knows, perhaps when young men are exposed to the reverence and beauty of the Tridentine Mass the outcome may be an increase in vocations…
My favorite part of the article:
“Just as the laity have grown accustomed to the incessant hand-holding and hand-shaking that make the Mass look like a hoe-down, they will learn to embrace the gestures of the old liturgy.”
No kidding! Our local NO parish here in Maine makes me roll my eyes from the very start. The priest always responds to “peace be with you” with “Thank you,” follows up with a handshakes during the sign of peace going on longer than reception of Communion (due to 5 Extraordinary ministers for 150 people), and other liturgical nonsense.
Hopefully there is one priest in the vicinity who will take pity of those of us who want more adoration, more piety, more focus on Our Lord during Mass.
I wonder if the Latin vs Novus Ordo takes a different flavor in Canada than in the United States. The pro-Latin Mass group in my Diocese rejects the magisterial authority of Vatican II and encourages their people to invite schismatic SSPX priests in to say mass if they cannot find one in communion with Rome.
I find it hard to believe that a “good Catholic” would choose schism over whatever problems exist with Novus Ordo. I don’t have much sympathy with for the Society of Saint Peter complaining how much scrutiny they are under when their members talk like that. My bishop doesn’t take nonsense from the liberal side either (like when they try to use the sensus fidelium to reject defined truth).
As a result, he gets pretty roundly criticized from everyone on both sides. I think one group wants to drive a nail through his left hand and another group wants to drive a nail through his right hand. What amazes me is how kind and patient he is with everyone. Sometimes I fear he will be promoted into a higher position and we’ll lose him.
The thing to remember when liturgical style is under discussion is that theology trumps feelings. It would be a huge mistake to go over to the East because one liked their liturgy better, and also a huge mistake to have any dealings with schismatic outfits like the SSUX. In the first case, their theology of the Trinity is faulty; in the second, to engage in schism is to hack onesself off from the Church, which is the Body of Christ, and cooperating with schism doesn’t strike me as a very good way to demonstrate allegiance to Our Lord. I dislike bad liturgical culture as much as anyone here, make no mistake about that, but I’d rather grit my teeth through clown Masses for the rest of my life than separate myself by disobedience from the Holy Father.
As an evangelical considering the Catholic Church, I admit I was encouraged by the Pope’s decision regarding the Tridentine Mass. Maybe I’m just big on tradition, but part of the attractiveness of the Catholic Church for me is the continuity with past, and the great reverenece in worship. From what I’ve heard, it’s a 50/50 shot as to whether one will find that in Mass as it’s currently celebrated today (and the posts I’ve read here confirm that). I can find watered down, trendy worship anywhere. So, we’ll see – It’s been my observation that, contrary to conventional wisdom, people ultimately respond to tradition and high expectations more enthusiastically than to lightweight fads. They want to be involved in something much bigger than themselves. I know I do.
Wait a minute. For years, parishoners have been provoked to the situation we have now by people who wanted to change the church. Parishoners were actively & intentionally upset in order to get the changes of the progressives made. No one was allowed a minute of peace. When we complained, we were told we had no choice, we were off-base, we were being difficult, etc.
And now, those same people are trying to tell us we shouldn’t get upset. Bull****.
The MP has given us the freedom to worship without being tortured. I think it’s time Catholics got the point. Being tortured is NOT what mass is about. Period.
Joann, the priest’s comment (in Ygnacia’s post) was indeed illogical, a non sequitur.
One can have sympathy for another’s feelings, sure, but that says nothing about the illogical nature of such a comment. To exhibit disjointed logic is merely that, and no amount of sympathy excuses it.
dERhvq Hello people, your site is best!
.
.
ErjDjJ Vangelis uses a technique of recording all tracks simultaneously on tape, using a device especially manufactured for him which he calls the “Direct box”.
“He explains his customary method of approach. As soon as the musical idea is there, as many keyboards as possible are connected to the control-desk, which in turn are directly connected to the applicable tracks of the multi-trackmachine.
vangelis mp3
Comments are closed.