With all of the blocking being done to
Summorum Pontificum being done by certain bishops we could only wish they could find this same zeal for other projects. What if these bishops were as effective in blocking the will of the Holy Father and in reality also the previous Holy Father in regards to the TLM as they were to closing down abortion clinics in their diocese?
What if they showed the same concern towards knowing the rubrics of the TLM as they did to the ordinary rite? Is it any wonder some take with more than a grain of salt these new found worries that priests more than adequately know the Mass and to perform it correctly. Now certainly the bishop has a clear role in ensuring his priests have the proper training and that they conform to liturgical regulations, but why exactly is it that there seems to be a rigorist view of this towards the TLM and a Lassie Faire attitude towards the ordinary form of the Mass. Strangely I had the odd idea that the same view should be taken towards all forms of liturgy in the diocese, but maybe that’s just me.
17 comments
Some of what the bishop is asking isn’t that unreasonable. Though that letter thing is a little odd. But you are right, it seems that some of the bishops are more worried about the Pre-Vatican II form being celebrated properly and reverently and such without even worrying about our current Liturgical form being celebrated properly.
They respect the TLM to death.
They respect it so much, they cannot allow it to be said.
I think they’re afraid of the orthodox Catholicism that the EF Mass teaches. 🙂
Actually, if I had to guess, I’d bet that the bishops are afraid of some of the nutters who push the Extraordinary Form as the ONLY legit form of the Mass. In other words, it’s not so much the E.F. itself that scares the bishops, but the extreme/fringe supporters of the E.F. who also send eighty page letters with fliers about Mary coming to kill us all for not praying the rosary, or pics of the face of Jesus in the clouds scowling at a baseball game played on Sunday, or long rambling missives complete with photocopies of TAN books foretelling the fall of the Church if we don’t all recite Psalm 51 in Latin at the end of each Mass…I’m only exaggerating a little here…now, some bishops probably do oppose the E.F. on theological or ideological grounds but some must also look at these “fans” of the E.F. and think, “Oy Vey! I can’t give these people a forum for this junk.”
Fr. Philip, OP
“who also send eighty page letters with fliers about Mary”
I often play (and I imagine I’m not the only one) If-I-Was-Bishop, but then I think of all the nut jobs from both fringes I would have to deal with and then I realize I don’t envy the job one bit.
It would be interesting if someone did a bishop survey on what kind of letters they mostly receive.
Father Philip:
“[E]ighty page letters with fliers about Mary coming to kill us all for not praying the rosary, or pics of the face of Jesus in the clouds scowling at a baseball game played on Sunday, or long rambling missives complete with photocopies of TAN books foretelling the fall of the Church if we don’t all recite Psalm 51 in Latin at the end of each Mass…I’m only exaggerating a little here…”
Doesn’t sound like an exaggeration to me.
I’m a master of ceremonies for a TLM in the Virginia suburbs of DC. As such, I organize training for up to three dozen altar servers. I also do my homework. You’d think that the motu proprio would be cause for rejoicing, but it has also been a catalyst for more complaining. Our diocese allows any priest who wants to learn the TLM the opportunity to do so. Several parishes offer it regularly, a few more on special occasions. But for some, these guys aren’t movin’ fast enough. People with no idea of what is specifically allowed in the 1962 Missal (a few details in the rubrics and peoples’ responses were introduced by 1960), complain about “modernist abuses” in the Old Mass, and assign ill motives to the priests who celebrate it. They have been spreading this trash in the blogosphere, basically lying through their teeth — all as part of some great “Catholic restoration,” I suppose.
Some bishops might see it coming from a mile away, and would just as soon have none of it. They don’t want parishes splitting into factions any more than they do already. Are they selective about choosing their battles? Yes, they are. They go after the ones whom they know will be obedient, and make them (the bishops) feel as if they’re in control of the situation. Yes, it’s an illusion, but remember, these are the same guys who thought they could shuffle a few perverts from one assignment to another, and it would all go away.
You know the rest.
I think Lassie had a good attitude. :)(Lassie Faire?)
Sorry, Gerald, couldn’t resist.
From the pews, it does appear sometimes as if the bishops, in general, choose odd battles. Now if they were to put lots of warrior zeal into blocking the indoctrination of the young by Planned Parenthood…
Then again, a pastor of my acquaintance was accused by an overzealous parishioner of disregarding the Pope when he directed TLM fans to churches where the traditional Mass has been said regularly rather than offer, presto-chango, a Latin Mass in his parish. The fact that he doesn’t know Latin and is the only priest celebrating the weekend’s 5+ Masses was not taken into consideration. There ARE people who pick at every detail of the liturgy and where I am, they DO tend to be the same people who hiss at Alzheimer’s sufferers who can’t ever seem to sit in the “right” place, glare at babies who gurgle, rage at babies who cry, etc, etc..
The TLM would gain more ground in my state if more sane people advocated it. The traditional Mass is attended mostly by sane people, it’s just that they aren’t its vocal champions.
Sorry Jeff. Did I rename you twice? This is what happens after you’ve spent a weekend shoveling and salting and STILL the car gets stuck every time you pull in or out of the driveway. My brain is stuck with my car. It gets confused after the soft ‘G’ sound.
And sometimes the blocking is due to the fact that the EF of the Mass represents a 180 degree turn from a modernist AGENDA that has been foisted on the faithful for 40 years.
Enough of that desert already!
Members of the TLM community in my Diocese thinks that repealing the Second Vatican Council would be “a good start”, will invite SSPX priests to say mass when a Fraternity of Saint Peter priest is unavailable. A confessor has told a woman that she must wear a skirt rather than pants when coming to confession. Another confessor has said that people who sin repeatedly are unrepentant because their penance is not stiff enough.
Now maybe this pales in comparison to abuses on the liberal end – but I am beginning to think the bishops actually have good reason to place the traditional end of the spectrum under greater scrutiny. Namely, everyone knows that the liberal dissenters do not speak on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church (even the dissenters themselves know this – as they publicly long to be free of the yoke of a stifling an ancient Catholicism).
The fringe elements on the TLM side, however, claim to represent the Catholic Church as it has always been since before the Second Vatican Council – and their claim is widely believed both by their supporters and their opponents.
As such, there is a greater danger that the TLM side will convince people that their abuses always have been and always should be. Or to use analogy, they don’t look as much like wolves as the other side.
While the liberal side has probably led the unfaithful astray, they probably have not had great success among the faithful. The fringe on the TLM side probably CAN lead the faithful astray.
While the liberal side has probably led the unfaithful astray, they probably have not had great success among the faithful. The fringe on the TLM side probably CAN lead the faithful astray.
Good points. I would say the liberal side are having less success among the faithful. That is to say, they had their day and unfortunately have largely succeded in taking an acceptable liturgy and reducing it to a puddle of sentimental mush. Now we are seeing evidence of a thaw, and their blood is in the water which is causing alot of sharks I don’t want arguing for me (even when I largely agree with them) to come out.
mmm interesting..
Laissez faire. Although it often seems more like “lazy faire”. I like “Lassie faire”, though. “Aeh, Lassie’ll find her way home to Mass. Sooner or later.”
We had an annoying thing the other day. Apparently when our deacon’s frail old parents came to visit, and his mom was asking somebody if it was okay to sit in a certain pew and maneuvering her husband’s weelchair, a lady hissed at her from the other pew that “we don’t talk in church here”.
We all know that some people are equally annoying when they insist on talking loudly, but… people with no judgment and a huge chip on their shoulders are not exactly a help, when it comes to reform of the reform.
The irony is that restricting the TLM encourages those on the fringe. Making it freely available will make it less “fringable” – i.e. put it back into the mainstream.
Then all the strange people who are supposedly populating these masses will have less reason to complain, be suspicious and distance themselves from the rest of the Church. If a bishop wants to bring these people back into the “mainstream,” there’s no better way than to “mainstream” the TLM. So restricting the TLM is actually a self-defeating policy.
I have been to some beautiful Latin masses, but I have also been to some really horrible ones. I mean when the priest barely knows it and constantly messes up and does not know the chant, and when the choir refuses to learn the chant. IT IS HORRIBLE!!!!! If a priest is having trouble in the English mass, he at least does not sound like a first grader trying to sound out his words. I think this is one of the other reasons that the bishops are waiting. I also agree with the extremist view. Many TLM attendees are strange people and many times I think they attend the TLM not because it is more beautiful, but rather because “Cool, it is in another language! And almost nobody goes so we can like be in charge!” I mean we go to a highbred mass (half Latin, half English) and there is this man and his wife and they have a new baby, well they dress and act very strangely, they sing so loudly that no one else can hear, and they do not sing traditional chant nor do they sing well. The priest is old and I guess they are the only ones out of the 15 people attending the mass that volunteered for the job of cantor, but these are the type of people that are causing the TLM more harm than good. I mean my mom’s family is in the SSPX and they literally told her that she is leading her six kids to hell because she goes to the English mass! This is the type of pigheaded narrow minded people who support the TLM, so allot of times people who know nothing about the beauty of the TLM are turned off by these types of people and priests who preach this same type of nonsense. I love the TLM, but I have been unable to attend one in so many years that now when I get the occasional chance, when I am traveling, to attend one, I can appreciate the outsiders view of the TLM and I think it is up to us middle of the road TLM lovers to fix this image.
all i can say is that, after attending a few TLMs, i can never look at the Novous Ordo in the same favourable light again, as i did before.
In my personal opinion, the Novous Ordo is more Eucharistic Meal than Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The high altar has been replaced by a table-like altar, the tabernacle has been relocated to sme obscure corner, lay people handle the sacred vessels etc…
its not just the latin or the gregorian chant. its how the entire liturgy reflects a higher degree of reverence and respect for and humility towards our Lord.
please don’t attribute our preferences for the TLM solely to such superficial reasons.
i am not condemning the NO Missae, but in my personal opinion the TLM is infinitely superior to it.
Grrr… Fr. Philip, Order of Preachers, wake up and TRAD UP! If you want to find out where there are far, far more “nutters” go to three random novus ordos this Sunday and just look around. Look a nutter in skin tight jeans in the sanctuary… look a nutter jumping over three pews to give some stranger a hug… look a nutter in shorts and sandals… look a nutter up front singing a really horrible folk song out of key… look a nutter dancing around the altar… look a nutter starting the holy Sacrifice of the Mass with a “goooooodmorn’n”… look a bunch of nutters touching the Body of Christ with their filthy fingers… look a nutter changing the words of the canon yet again…
With all due respect, padre, you are full of crap!
Comments are closed.