Jimmy Akin shows just how historically inaccurate this charge is and totally lacking in foundation. It also goes to show just how common it has become to reference any deep friendship of same-sex friends as being homosexual in nature, for example the baseless charges against Blessed John Henry Newman. The Catholic Church gets accused of obsessing about sex while secularists reduce many things to sexual attraction as motive.
Jimmy Akin has also put together a link list concerning articles on John Boswell who was a historian and homosexual activist who is perhaps best known for writing the book Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe.
23 comments
Oh dear, gay marriage creeps closer and closer and when it finally is legal in all the States as it is in much of the developed world, what will you do? More ominously what will your god do? I understand that this is the sort of thing that upsets it to no end.
God will do nothing overtly. He will not send floods. He will not destroy. He will not send down angels with fiery swords. (Though if He did, would you believe then, I doubt it)
He laid down His bow in His war against man a very long time ago. He forces no one to believe in Him or accept Him. The church made many mistakes in her desire to save the world. True. If people wish not to live according to God’s word, so be it. His Kingdom is not of this world. And since you don’t care about anything but this world, and your time alive, you don’t have anything about which to worry. You want scientific proof that He exists. There isn’t any.
I understand how you feel.
I have no proof that the sun will rise tomorrow, but I’d be a fool to not believe it will rise.
Hey Jeff! Thanks for posting this and I had just written about 5 or six paragraphs concerning the film and I sware to GOD, I accidently hit a wrong key, I guess, cause “IT” just all disappeared like magic and so I’m going to try to paraphrase what I had written although, I don’t think that I could ever do “IT” justice cause “IT” was a work of Art, even if “I” do say so myself but the main reason is that “IT” was way too long to repeat.:)
Anyway, I had started explaining what Jimmy our Pal had said sounded so real to me as a teanacher. All kinds of guys would hang around me and they became my best friends and that I wasn’t even interested in girls, so we boys pretented, but “I” loved girls and long story short I was still a virgin at twenty-four and a good looking virgin at that and not because I didn’t get my chance to…….
Stop “IT” right there sinner vic before you make a fool of me again and “I’M” tired of ya trying to con vic, “I” mean convince my weakest, strongest cells of this day that you are my god. You know that you’re not because Salvage made “IT” clear in so many ways why oh why gods don’t exist so why can’t you stop messing around with my atomic cells. The next thing that you’ll probably do is tell everyone that my mother-in-law thought that “I” was gay before “I” married her daughter and by the way, Happy Mother’s Day and GOD BLESS her SOUL.
Stop “IT” before some of my past, future strongest cells start thinking that they really do exist like this GOD of yours. Long story short, you better stop “IT” right NOW Victor, “I” mean sinner vic or is that just one of Victor’s past and/or future spritual god angel cells on stage NOW so stop “IT” cause we’re the only gods around!!!!!!!
Make UP your mind god, “I” mean sinner vic who is really incharge of this flesh that “I’M” not really incharge of if there’s no god? Is “IT” just a large body Mass in the form of a “MAN” who simply passes gas NOW and THEN?
Look sinner vic! I challenge you to prove that your 97% so called spiritual reality body cloned cells, I mean clown cells are stronger that my 3% “Jesus Cells”. Listen here sinner vic, as far as we “Jesus Cells” are concerned, we could simply give your female, male varus cells a shake and turn them all into “The Incredible Hulk” so stop “IT” right NOW before “The Avengers” come to “Jesus” The King of ALL ANGELS rescue! 🙂
God Bless,
Peace
>Though if He did, would you believe then, I doubt it
No, of course I would, that’s the problem, your god never does stuff like that, it used to but then stopped.
>He laid down His bow in His war against man a very long time ago.
It made us and then declared war because it didn’t like the way we came out?
That doesn’t strike you as crazy?
>He forces no one to believe in Him or accept Him.
No, that’s not quite true, if you don’t believe or accept it you go to Hell right? So that’s a threat of extreme physical violence.
That strikes me as crazy.
>The church made many mistakes in her desire to save the world.
This is so twisted I don’t even know where to begin.
Save the world from what? Your god? Your god’s nemesis that it made? Other religions?
The schemes with the Mafia and the Vatican bank, how does that tie into world saving? Do I need to cut and paste sections from the stories about the school for deaf children?
The Vatican was an ally of the Nazi Party, what world were they trying to save there?
>I have no proof that the sun will rise tomorrow, but I’d be a fool to not believe it will rise.
Yes, because a) it rises every day and you have seen it b) the reasons why it raises, sets and it hot are well understood and proven and fit within the laws of physics and reality c) well don’t really need a c), a) and b) are more than enough.
Your god on the other hand hasn’t been seen by anyone and defies reality and logic in countless baffling ways that only make sense in the anthropological context of myth and superstition.
Sorry Victor, better just bow your head before the almighty sense of salvage, we have no business crying for help, no business at all. Leave your wife just leave her you may not admit you love her or even care it’s over.
We are not allowed to think we are better than we are, give up and give in.
“You are a fluke of of the universe, you have no right to be here…”
I really don’t understand where you get that stuff from, I haven’t said anything of the sort.
>better just bow your head before the almighty sense of salvage,
Or you could point out where I’m wrong, that’s actually what I’m asking.
>we have no business crying for help, no business at all. Leave your wife just leave her you may not admit you love her or even care it’s over.
Not even close to sure what that’s suposed to mean but to be fair I don’t read Victor’s posts as he seems wobbly in the sanity department.
>We are not allowed to think we are better than we are, give up and give in.
Can you explain what you mean here? I do not get it.
>“You are a fluke of of the universe, you have no right to be here…”
Well that may be so, the fluke part as the universe seems horrifically hostile to life. The chain of events that made life on Earth possible are so incredibly varied and unlikely it’s hard to think them common.
But then again it’s a big universe and life maybe comes together in forms and ways we can’t even imagine.
As for right? Well that’s not even a consideration as far as existence goes, right or privilege or happenstance doesn’t really change anything.
(((I don’t read Victor’s posts as he seems wobbly in the sanity department. )))
Thanks a LOT Jack!
“No, of course I would, that’s the problem, your god never does stuff like that, it used to but then stopped.”
So God doesn’t exist because He stopped existing evidenced by the fact that He doesn’t do things “like that” any more????
Also If He did exist you don’t want to obey Him cause He is so awfully awfully mean. And forget belonging to the Church because even though they believe they are bad, and have done horrible things.
Why expend so much energy and anger at something that doesn’t exist, and a bad church to which you don’t belong, and therefore can never hurt YOU!
>So God doesn’t exist because He stopped existing evidenced by the fact that He doesn’t do things “like that” any more????
No, it never existed, it’s always been a myth but in those stories it used to interact with humanity (usually in the form of violence or bizarre demands) but stopped showing it to be rather inconsistent in its behavior. Doesn’t that make you wonder?
>Also If He did exist you don’t want to obey Him cause He is so awfully awfully mean.
And insane, petty and plain weird.
>And forget belonging to the Church because even though they believe they are bad, and have done horrible things.
You disagree? The Church hasn’t done terrible things both in modern and ancient times?
>Why expend so much energy and anger at something that doesn’t exist, and a bad church to which you don’t belong, and therefore can never hurt YOU!
I’m not, posting comments on a blog isn’t much of an energy expansion and I’m certainly not angry at your god. Your church has never hurt me but it has hurt children and that does make me mad, doesn’t it make you mad?
So it’s not only that God doesn’t exist. It’s if He does, you want a better class of God. You are upset that God set up this” worship me or go to hell. ” rackett.
Excuse me, but if you don’t believe in God, you cannot possibly believe in either heaven or hell; or how one chooses to accept heaven or chooses not to go to heaven.
As for God making that pronouncement; it is made by those in authority all the time. Your teacher said, I am sure, Do this homework or you’ll fail. If you can accept the failure, don’t do the work.
If you won’t believe why would you feel entitled to go to heaven, or get the reward? Why do you feel it is unfair that only believers would go to heaven. You don’t even believe in heaven, why care that you wouldn’t get in?
Every once in a while you say something that sounds more like a refusal to believe that God exists rather that an actual lack of belief.
>So it’s not only that God doesn’t exist. It’s if He does, you want a better class of God.
Wouldn’t you? Your god is perfect yet its creation is a debacle, its religion soaked in blood and lunacy, something is obviously wrong here.
>You are upset that God set up this” worship me or go to hell. ” rackett.
Upset? Are you trying to attach a negative emotion to my opinion thus subtly suggesting that I’m not coming from a place of reason?
So, no, not “upset”. What I am doing is dispassionately showing a glaring flaw in the “free will” argument proposed by theists. Free will is pointless if the wrong choice leads to torture. That’s extortion.
If I’m wrong than please explain what I am missing.
> Do this homework or you’ll fail. If you can accept the failure, don’t do the work.
So I’m going to “fail” because I don’t believe in your god? Well the thing is your god is from Bronze Age mythology.
I keep repeating that point and no one has questioned it so I assume you agree. Yes? Good.
I can’t believe such a thing is real, my heart and mind could no more think your god true than it could think Spiderman is.
Your god could fix this by revealing itself to the world but for reasons given by theists that make even less sense it does not.
>If you won’t believe why would you feel entitled to go to heaven, or get the reward?
Who says I feel entitled to any such thing?
>Why do you feel it is unfair that only believers would go to heaven.
I don’t feel it unfair, I know it to be untrue.
>Every once in a while you say something that sounds more like a refusal to believe that God exists rather that an actual lack of belief.
Every time you post you ignore my responses to your points. Why don’t you just answer them or admit you don’t know, anything other than trying to make me sound like something you wish I was.
Gods are not real, once again, Odin, Zeus, you think they are real? You ever think they existed?
I assume no, that you don’t think they ever existed (I’m just going to answer for you from now on since you don’t seem to have the ability to) so then I could say to you:
It sounds more like a refusal to believe that Zeus exists rather that an actual lack of belief.
It sounds more like a refusal to believe that Odin exists rather that an actual lack of belief.
See? No matter how many of these rhetorical tricks you try and play I can always substitute your god for one I KNOW you KNOW isn’t real thus negating it because your only two choices are either ALL gods are real or NO gods are real.
Well I supposed you could pick and choose but what would the criteria be? Number of followers? Years of survival? Proven miracles and revelations? I think that would put most of them neck and neck.
This whole argument between salvage and the other posters here is ridiculous. The subject of Jeff’s post is same-sex marriage in the church, not God’s existence. Let’s stay on topic, please.
Salvage ~ sorry, I don’t think your real. Your just some annoying bot or a really unsophisticated program. you are annoying, repetitive, two dimensional, shallow, uncreative, and predictable. yep, you’re a bot. i’ve just never observed one outside a chat room before ~ you see something new every day. Well at least it makes sense now ~ but the adolescent and Asperger’s like quality is amazing. Man, I am really glad you dont actually exist. Still, you would think by now they could get bots to do more than circular speech ~ just a little artificial intelligence would be nice. They need to put your bot in a chat room frequented by teens. you would annoy all the girls away, which would be good for their protection. That would at least get some good out of you, rather than merely being a pest. a voice app would be nice to give you a more human touch. Napolean dynamite seems appropriate or maybe pee wee herman. It is a shame you dont exist really.
> yep, you’re a bot.
Ha! Ha! Yes! Ad hominem attacks show how right you are! Why don’t you comment on what I actually say? I guess insults are easier.
>This whole argument between salvage and the other posters here is ridiculous.
Quite right.
>The subject of Jeff’s post is same-sex marriage in the church, not God’s existence. Let’s stay on topic, please.
Agreed! So when gay marriage is legal what will your god do about it? Why does your god hate gay people? Doesn’t it make them?
Salvage: Why bait us? The only answer you want to hear is: He obviously won’t do anything. He hasn’t interacted with humanity in 2 millenia, if then, which you know He didn’t.
As for the whole God is or is not.
If you are right, you are never going to know it. And we theists are never going to know we are wrong. No God, no heaven, no hell, no afterlife, no nothing. When we die there is no knowledge after death.
But if we theists are right. And there is a God, and a heaven, and hell, and an afterlife, then we will know we are right and you will know you are wrong and we’ll both know it for a very long time.
>Salvage: Why bait us? The only answer you want to hear is:
What you think, why I’m wrong about the things I say here.
>If you are right, you are never going to know it.
That is true but I know it now so it’s no biggie, I have little interest in my state of being when I’m dead.
Look, your Bible says your god demands the death of homosexuals, this isn’t something I made up. The Bible goes on to say nothing but negative things about the gays and I assume that drives your opposition to gay marriage or gay acceptance in general.
I’m looking for the why that is, why your god hates gays yet makes them, why do you think it does?
Ask Him!
I apologize. That outburst was uncalled for. I don’t have that answer for you. But the Catholic Church does have an Apostolate that may be able to answer the question for you.
http://couragerc.net/
Hope you find the answers there.
I’m not asking your god because it’s not real but you’ve said you don’t know and that’s a more than fair and honest answer.
Oh I just followed the link, ‘pray the gay away’ does not work, one can no more stop being gay than one can stop being straight.
It’s truly bizarre that you can’t understand that as I assume you didn’t choose your sexual preferences.
I’m sending my sandals out to be cleaned. Peace.
Ah the perpetual retard salvage returns to annoy us again, don’t you have a life? Vindictice personalities rarely do.