WASHINGTON (AP) – The House on Thursday fell short in an effort to ban abortions based on the sex of the fetus as Republicans and Democrats made an election-year appeal for women’s votes.
The legislation would have made it a federal crime to perform or force a woman to undergo a sex-based abortion, a practice most common in some Asian countries where families wanting sons abort female fetuses.It was a rare social issue to reach the House floor in a year when the economy has dominated the political conversation, and Republicans, besieged by Democratic claims that they are waging a war on women, struck back by trying to depict the vote as a women’s rights issue.
“It is violence against women,” said Rep. Chris Smith, R-N.J., of abortions of female fetuses. “This is the real war on women.”
The White House, most Democrats, abortion rights groups and some Asian-American organizations opposed the bill, saying it could lead to racial profiling of Asian-American women and subject doctors who do not report suspected sex-selection abortions to criminal charges.
Because there is no worse sin than racial-profiling. Killing a child because they are the wrong sex is acceptable just as long as there is no possibility of racial-profiling. Good thing our culture has its head screwed on right and all the priorities correct.
“The administration opposes gender discrimination in all forms, but the end result of this legislation would be to subject doctors to criminal prosecution if they fail to determine the motivations behind a very personal and private decision,” White House spokeswoman Jamie Smith said in a statement. “The government should not intrude in medical decisions or private family matters in this way.”
Ah, so they have seen the light in regards to hate crime laws now also. Oh wait you can prosecute people on motive in regards to race, but not in regards to gender-based abortion. Yeah totally consistent. Though on a practical level such a law would have been difficult to enforce.
Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the House’s No. 2 Democrat, said he thought the bill was introduced because “somebody decided politically that this was a difficult place to put people in.”
No doubt this is certainly true to some extent, but that is because if you have an inconsistent opinion it is really annoying to have the inconsistencies shown to light.
This is an area where even abortion supporters become uncomfortable. Then Sen. Clinton who ironically called the Partial Birth Abortion Ban a “slippery slope” has spoken out against Gender-based abortion before.
Clinton: “…Obviously, there’s work to be done in both India and China, because the infanticide rate of girl babies is still overwhelmingly high, and unfortunately with technology, parents are able to use sonograms to determine the sex of a baby, and to abort girl children simply because they’d rather have a boy.” (Hat tip: Thomas Peters)
Well it is not just India and China since it happens here also (but to a much lesser degree). The designer family is more and more of a mindset where ideally you have one of each – a kind of matched set. Two of the same kind spoil it and having three children or more is of course destructive to the environment.
The inconsistencies of the abortion supporters queasiness with this form of abortion selection is partly a real moral queasiness and the discomfiture of knowing that they can’t justify it based on their pro-abortion viewpoint.
- If’s it only tissue mass, a result of conception, or any of the other obscuring phrases. Then it does not matter if the chromosomes are XX or XY.
- If the women has total autonomy over her body, than she also has total autonomy to make a decision regardless of the reasons or motivations.
- If it really is not a human being until born, than the gender of the fetus is also a non-issue. It is not like it is a “real” human female or male.
- If viability is the determination to accept abortion, chromosomes don’t affect this viability.
- If the ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights, than gender-based abortion is also a civil right.
- If personhood begins at birth as abortion-advocates proclaim, then once again what is the big deal?
- Some have argues that abortion reduces crime. So aborting male-children helps the crime rate since males commit most of the crimes.
- If women can choose an abortion for financial reasons such as financial inconvenience than if it is true girls cost more to raise than boys – choosing to kill a girl is perfectly acceptable.
Now you can almost admire the President for his evil consistency. I only wish we could have a President as pro-life as President Obama is pro-abortion. That might be difficult to do for even a very pro-life candidate. When it comes to abortion the President will let nothing get in his way including the First Amendment.
75 comments
This is disturbing on so many levels. Atm, there are plenty of countries with skewed birth ratios: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_sex_rat_at_bir-people-sex-ratio-at-birth
1.07 would be at the upper end of the norm…
Now this is very odd. Because in Toronto, not too long ago, a newspaper broke the story that a hospital in a certain area of the city that is predominantly a certain race began to not reveal the sex of their unborn children in an effort to stem the tide of gender specific abortions. So they would wait until after 20 weeks, at which point most doctors will not offer abortions unless the mother’s life is danger, because it is misogynistic to abort female offspring just because they are female. Don’tcha know?
Somehow this practice offended the pro abortion feminist staff at this hospital that more girls were being aborted than boys.
So women have every right in the world to have an abortion for whatever reason, just not that reason.
The logic coming from the these particular pro-abortion feminists is this:
A foetus is not a person and has no right to life, but it has a gender and needs to be protected, but only if it will be harmed solely because it is female.
Clinton: “…Obviously, there’s work to be done in both India and China, because the infanticide rate of girl babies is still overwhelmingly high, and unfortunately with technology, parents are able to use sonograms to determine the sex of a baby, and to abort girl children simply because they’d rather have a boy.”
So, um, about those sonogram bills: they’re a problem, why?
>Well it is not just India and China since it happens here also (but to a much lesser degree).
To what degree and what are you basing this statement on?
Jeff – here are some statistics for sex selection happening in the US and to what degree
The male to female sex ratio from 1975 to 2002 was 1.053 for Whites, 1.030 (p < 0.01) for Blacks,
1.074 (p < 0.01) for Chinese and 1.073 (p < 0.01) for Filipinos. From 1991 to 2002, the sex ratio increased
from 1.071 to 1.086 for Chinese, 1.060 to 1.074 for Filipinos, 1.043 to 1.087 for Asian Indians and 1.069
to 1.088 for Koreans. The highest sex ratios were seen for third+ births to Asian Indians (1.126), Chinese
(1.111) and Koreans (1.109).
"We report evidence which strongly suggests that male
sex selection occurs in some populations of Asian and
Pacific Island origin/culture who deliver in the United
States. Although the magnitude of prenatal sex selection
in the United States is not on the scale of that seen in
China and other Asian countries where it results in major
sex ratio imbalances, the practice does raise serious
ethical issues in the United States. Future monitoring
of sex ratios will be especially important because
inexpensive and non-invasive prenatal sex identification
tests in the first trimester are becoming increasingly
available (Benn and Chapman, 2010)." http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/health/Sexratios.pdf
• If’s it only tissue mass, a result of conception, or any of the other obscuring phrases.
Yes, those phrases are very obscuring, why you could be talking about anything!
• Then it does not matter if the chromosomes are XX or XY.
Correct.
• If the women has total autonomy over her body, than she also has total autonomy to make a decision regardless of the reasons or motivations.
Correct.
• If it really is not a human being until born, than the gender of the fetus is also a non-issue. It is not like it is a “real” human female or male.
Yup.
• If viability is the determination to accept abortion, chromosomes don’t affect this viability.
Anything the woman likes can be the reason for her having an abortion.
So. Are you trying to make the argument that there are good reasons for having an abortion and that sex selection isn’t one? It’s bizarre when pro-lifers do this, harp on one reason why a woman might have an abortion as if her motivation matters to you in the slightest. You don’t care why she’s having an abortion all you know is that some guy in a goofy hat told you that your god doesn’t like it so you don’t either.
• If the ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights, than gender-based abortion is also a civil right.
Yes.
• If personhood begins at birth as abortion-advocates proclaim, then once again what is the big deal?
Unless it’s your/ body it’s not a big deal. Doesn’t stop you from going on about it for some weird reason.
• Some have argues that abortion reduces crime. So aborting male-children helps the crime rate since males commit most of the crimes.
Uh sure? And by “some” you mean “Freakanomics” and they don’t make arguments, they crunch statistics and make askew hypothesizes.
• If women can choose an abortion for financial reasons such as financial inconvenience
•
Ha! Ha! Yes! That’s it! Poor women barely able to support themselves are “inconvenienced” by having children / having more children!
It’s clear you give this stuff so much thought!
• than if it is true girls cost more to raise than boys – choosing to kill a girl is perfectly acceptable.
I’m not sure if that is true and no, killing a girl is not perfectly acceptable, having an abortion is.
See, fetuses aren’t children, it’s weird you can’t tell the difference.
>Now you can almost admire the President for his evil consistency.
Ha! Ha! Yes! Obama is evil because he hasn’t made abortion illegal and he yells “Hail Satan” every time a woman has an abortion!
>When it comes to abortion the President will let nothing get in his way including the First Amendment.
Yes! Because women have abortions your religion is now illegal in America!
So, really you understand nothing but you still comment on it, it’s fascinating.
If men had children then abortion would be a sacrament, *sigh*.
It’s little short of a secular sacrament as things stand now, although maybe one with a better grasp on the statistics than I could speak to a correlation with the number (whatever it is) of abortions procured because of pressure from a father or boyfriend.
I used to hear abortion justified by quite broad definitions of “well-being of the mother.” I wonder if they’ll try applying that to sex selection somehow. Well, I guess there’s the argument that sons have better earning potential, and so can provide better care for their elderly parents….
Abortion is also a type of age discrimination. You have no rights because you happen to be in the earliest stage of your life, as opposed to some other stage. The whole key is the made-up legal term of “non-person” which has no basis in science or reason.
(((See, fetuses aren’t children, it’s weird you can’t tell the difference.
Yes! Because women have abortions your religion is now illegal in America!
So, really you understand nothing but you still comment on it, it’s fascinating.)))
Way to go salvage! Look these so called catholics won’t listen to you and personally speaking, you’re just as big a god as “I AM” and you’ve done all you can short of telling them the truth. If only they would listen to the alien angels who are the real gods, these humans might stand a chance in the future.
I know that you’re tempted to tell them the truth salvage but don’t do “IT” cause they couldn’t deal with the truth that each and every human is a god and they certainly will not accept that you and me are even bigger gods then they are! Right?
Whatever you do don’t tell these humans that woman are the only “ONE” who can save this world with our help. To come right out and tell them that “Children” are the “ONES” who are really incharge would just destroy their ego if ya know what “I” mean? We gods trust woman and know that they are the only “ONEs” to know weather they should abort these no really children at birth. Between one god to another salvage, you’ve done your best to tell them, these so called human catholics made in our own image off and the alien gods have tried everything also to tell these humans to leave woman take care of their own bodies. As a matter of fact, they’ve even asked “ONE” of Victor’s so called 7% Jesus cell and go figure he told U>S this little story!
Once UP on a Time, there was a police officer who was finding “IT” very hard indeed and this officer had a child at home. One night this officer came home “In-talk-see-Cait-“IT” if ya get my drift? Anyway his three year old child came UP to this officer and said, “I LOVE YA DAD!” The officer just went into tears and said, YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT CAUSE THERE AIN’T NO SUCH THING AS LOVE!
WHAT’S WRONG DAD?
The officer stared at his child for a short while and then pulled his gun out of his “host her” and said come here child and we’ll play a game.
GREAT DAD, I LOVE GAMES! WHAT DO WE CALL THIS GAME DAD?
NEVER MIND CHILD! Here’s how we play “IT”! “I’ll go first!
NOW! You take this gun and while “slut her ring” his words says, you spin the “shame her” and point “IT” at your head!
The child with a question mark in some of his brain cells says to his dad, SOUNDDDSSS LIKE FUNNN DAD!
The officer shortly after points “IT” at his right temple and says son, no matter what happens, you must promise me that you’ll do the same thing that “I” do and then you can join me in our new world.
How “IT” End is UP to you my friends!
Maybe he fires “IT” and then says to the child, NOW! “IT” is your turn child!
Go Figure! That’s the entire answer that this so called Jesus cell of Victor gave U>S (usual sinning) gods and between you and me salvage, if this Jesus ever existed, He’s just as crazy as Victor is and ever was!
I hear ya salvage! You’ve finally seen the light sinner vic? 🙂
Peace
>The whole key is the made-up legal term of “non-person” which has no basis in science or reason.
So 16 dividing cells is the same thing as you?
(((So 16 dividing cells is the same thing as you?)))
salvage, are we NOW talking about 16 spiritual imaginary reality cells all in “ONE” ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar5btDrZ9I4
Orr are we talking about another 16 spiritual reality combined cells of http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/biography/documents/hf_ben-xvi_bio_20050419_short-biography_en.html
Maybe we’re talking about invisible cells combining 16 cells in reality who think spiritually? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqnoMPHo_rYdLKCGxropRNEjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20090226113003AAe84pv
Listen salvage “I” don’t know what I’m suppose to talk about here so I’M going fishing with Victor cause his wife bought U>S (usual sinners) a new boat about two years ago and let’s just say that we love to troll with “IT” so if you need help just talk to the spiritual saint of this day who has 16 cells but personally speaking we gods recommend that you do “IT” “ONE Cell at a Time” if ya get my drift? https://www.catholicgreetings.org/category.aspx?catid=113
I hear ya! I’ll just tell Saint Justin that one of sinner vic cells sent ya! 🙂
Peace
>So 16 dividing cells is the same thing as you?
Scientifically, yes, for a human zygote or blastocyst. The fudamental delta is only “time”.
> So 16 dividing cells is the same thing as you?
There was a period in each and every one of our lives, before we could remember or have the possibility o remembering, that we were utterly vulnerable and helpless. Even so, we were uniquely human, inexorably developing into the person that is reading this text. During part of that time of development, our bodies consisted of only sixteen cells. So the answer is yes: that 16-cell human is just as much a person as I, and we are equal in our common humanity. Equally deserving of God’s love, our neighbor’s love, and protection of our rights in law. To believe anything else is to assume the possibility that a class of human can be designated unworthy of human rights, and the only reason to do that is to justify ignorin human rights. But be careful: once you’ve admitted the possibility, you have no control of how your neighbor is going to draw the line between person and non-person. And it just might be coincident with your property line.
Ben of Two Men, I agree. If someone maintains that a 16-cell
human zygote isn’t human, then I suppose that person has an
idea of just how many cells one must consist of to be called a
human– and they could explain how their threshold number
isn’t arbitrary. Good luck with that.
>Scientifically, yes, for a human zygote or blastocyst.
What science says that? I think science comes up with terms like “zygote” or “blastocyst” because they are different things than a fetus or a person.
Are eggs and sperm also the same thing as a zygote?
All this is okay;
but -> Mum & Dad for what ever reason….
DO NOT WANT A GIRL CHILD :-
Therefore it is possible & most likely to assume that the girl child WILL NOT BE LOVED
MAY EVEN BE ABUSED
HARMED & OR KILLED
“she fell into the pool the minute we turned our back,”
“I did not see her behind the car as I backed out,”
BINGO – problem solved.
It behooves us to consider the quality of life of an unwanted child –
a possible outcast – drug & alcohol abuse – depression – possible self-harm.
So rather than you be forced to be a witness to the abuse of a child, and possible murder (after birth), where you would be required to report and attempt to stop the abuse, you would rather the abuse and and the destruction were to happen in the woman’s womb, where you can’t see it. Gotcha Like that makes sense. Baby girls don’t deserve to be abused by their mothers unless they are still in the womb. Believe it or not, we get it. The foetus with human dna isn’t human or isn’t human enough, because it isn’t outside the womb, got it. Dehumanization is the first step to legitimizing horrible atrocities.
Argue quality of life as a reason for not letting them be born at all. We get it.
We just don’t agree.
Oh Rosie, they don’t care about children, they only care about fetuses, you’ll never see them protesting the abuse of children, they won’t talk about that at all in fact!
No, once you’re born they think that suffering is not only inevitable but a good thing, the more you suffer the more Jesus loves you and then after you die things will be good.
It’s all rather sad and twisted.
Rosie Davis – you don’t realize how obnoxious your post is, accidents happen in the most loving of homes to completely loved and wanted children. You really are completely clueless. Not to mention statistically, child abuse has not abated at all since the wide spread acceptance of abortion.
“Government statistics claim that over 228 people die after being backed over by a passenger vehicle. Of the 228 people who die every year, 44% of them are under the age of 5 years old which is why the inclusion of back up cameras in automobiles will save a great deal of emotional distress.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/199158/back-up-camera-new-cars-required-to-install-rear-view-cameras-by-2014/#RvLVgQ4R8hX839EC.99
I’m sure absolutely no pro-life people have ever, ever worked on this sort of project…..or anything else that has ever been a good thing in anyone’s life even if Salvage knows some theists somewhere who are “great people”………
Rose – I challenge you to read this article carefully and in it’s entirety to the very end. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html
I bring up child abuse and you think it’s the same thing as accidentally running over your kid?
It’s the mental acrobats that you guys pull to avoid reality that I truly find fascinating.
Rose – could you site a study that shows how abortion has reduced child abuse? Some statistics on how there is might be a correlation between fewer incidents of child abuse now per capita (in the USA) than before 1973? Here’s on small study that finds a correlation between women who choose abortion and have a higher rate of “aggression” toward subsequent children compared to the general population. http://www.ispub.com/journal/the-internet-journal-of-pediatrics-and-neonatology/volume-6-number-2/induced-abortion-and-child-directed-aggression-among-mothers-of-maltreated-children.html
Jeff, we did go to our cottage and thank goodness that we did because the winds had broken one of the ropes which held my boat to our dock and long story short we came back home cause it wasn’t very pleasant and the paddle boat that the wind brought to our shore from somewhere gods only know proves it.
I must apologize to Rose for having motivated her heart in this way and forgive me if I’m wrong but I honestly believe that she wrote what she wrote out of fustration and not because she believes that two wrongs would equal “ONE Right”.
Right NOW! I’m really angry with these gods but like salvage says, they don’t really exist anymore then the so called catholics gods do and I ask NOW, if they do exist why are they such cowards and use anger and hatred to prove their existance.
Can you hear yourself sinner vic?
Sabine! You challenge Rose to read what you’ve supplied, well I challenge you to show woman, teens and children what some would like to do to the unborn child and see what the majority would say?
Oh I can almost hear some saying, oh yes you and all those woman haters who enjoy taking advantage of woman simply because they know what to do with an unwanted fetus who is not even a child yet and will never be until “IT” is born.
sinner vic why can’t you hear yourself?
Forgive me Jeff but you probably won’t allow this comment especially when I say, “Wake UP Jesus Christ! That’s if You even exist”! How much of this sillyness will You put UP with and allow?
I hear ya sinner vic! Victor why don’t you ask your so called 7% Jesus Cells what they think about “IT” all? 🙂
Trust me, “IT” is not very funny anymore! 🙁
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvLyJs2FHh0
I know Lord, as “IT” was in the beginning, is NOW and will always be, but Lord Jesus can’t you please set these so called godly angel gods on the straight and narrow cause we humans are just flesh, blood and bones and have no chance against these non existant godly angels by ourselves.
Peace
Dear Sabine, umm, yes, we have.
Jes?
Thanks Vic – I don’t believe they are up to that challenge either 🙁
To imply that the heart-breaking injuries suffered by our children in moments of inattentiveness are inflicted intentionally, is unbelievably cruel! Yes, parents who have failed in their quest to be perfect parents are used to the judgements by parents who manage to know every second of every minute of every hour of every day where their little one is and what he is up to, but not so used to the charge that their failure is a result of intent! Weird how Rose manages to bring this up during a sex selection argument which is detrimental to baby girls, as most of the kids who die as toddlers in accidents are boys.
Murdering an unborn child, regardless of the reason, is a grave decision that the person conducting the execution and the parent requesting the hit on their unborn child will eventually answer to unless they repent. That is unless you are a non believer and do not believe in consequences and a higher authority. Which doesn’t give you a pass, it only gives you a greased slide.
>That is unless you are a non believer and do not believe in consequences and a higher authority.
So people who don’t believe in your god do not believe in consequences or higher authorities?
While I can’t speak for them all I can assure you I believe in consequences and higher authorities, just not that they are magical things from ancient mythology.
But please, tell me why that’s unreasonable.
Ha! Ha! I am A troll!!
a babbling troll!!!
(((salvage { 06.02.12 at 2:25 pm } Ha! Ha! I am A troll!!
a babbling troll!!!)))
Don’t be so hard on yourself salvage! No body is perfect!!!
I hear ya! Only your God Victor! 🙂
Peace
..
I suppose it is rather trollish to keep pointing out that the basis of Catholicism (and well all religions) comes directly from ancient myths but I’m just fascinated by the sheer amount of doublethink it must take to believe in it while living in a modern world.
If someone sacrificed a bull to Zeus you’d think them crazy yet you eat your god each Sunday so I’ve got to keep harping until someone explains how you do it without being delusional.
Since you are so familiar with ancient myths, surely you realize that the creation account is told to highlight the differences?
I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you mean, how does the “creation account” (Genesis?) highlight the difference?
Hey salvage did you know that Victor eats his god not only on Sundays but sometimes during the week also.
STOP THAT sinner vic cause you’re being silly again and you know as well as most good Catholics who are concerned that it is just a spiritual meaning which is spiritual food for the heart of hearts that we really eat!
There you go salvage! This Victor is crazier than the rest of these Catholics and we gods must put a stop to them so me and you should warn grade “ONE” “TWO” and “Three” teachers not to allow these Catholic priest in their classes cause I can just hear them saying in so many words and worst of all while saying “IT” in their classes, they are writing on the blackboard stuff like 1+1+1=(1) and there goes all the reality teaching that good teachers have been working on.
STOP THAT sinner vic! Jesus experienced that same form of discriminational behaviour from many people in the past when He walked His Fathers Earth and did you know that He Jesus, also had many followers until He told his followers “The Truth” and ……..
Victor! Victor! Victor! Come on you can read all about “IT” http://www.reachingcatholics.org/eatdrink.html AND between you, me and most of your 93% body cells know how “Jesus” lost all His followers, in other words, these gods were their own worst enemies.
STOP “IT” sinner vic cause you know that you must be reborn in order to experience this sooooo…..
Can you hear what your saying Victor? Are you saying that you must kill yourself like you did in 1991 in order to become “Grade ONE Oil”? Listen Victor! Why don’t you admit “IT”, your Jesus was no more a god than “The “I” A Told LA” and don’t forget that “”I” A Told LA” you this. Gee look way UP on cloud 9 and see the bright side Victor cause you know that Jesus still had eleven apostles and His Mother who believed in Him….Well kind of! Right folks? Listen Victor, before you cut u>s (usual sinning gods) off again, please allow u>s to go and sit on our throne one last time so that we can get rid of those 7% virus cells who won’t agree with the majority of your flesh who are full of “IT” annn….
STOP “IT” sinner vic cause you know that you’re dramatizing most of what you are saying and although “IT” is true that Jeff and “I” enjoy SF and Fantasy but we still know the difference between reality and these things so pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee….
Hey Victor, in that case, tell U>S NOW why your so called 7% Jesus Cells won’t allow your brother Joe to let spiritual blind dogs in church?
Enough sinner vic! What you meant to say is why won’t me, myself and i allow dogs in a Pro Catholick churches during reality living? As far as my brother Joe is concerned, long story short, my brother Joe, God Bless His Soul hung his flesh and a Spiritual Saint Bernard dog from 1946 in human flesh convinced The French Holy Angels Church that they should give him a church service because “The Savard Family” were workers of “The Land” and……
Nice try sinner vic butt I’m back NOW and look long story short, when “I” pray to our Heavenly Father and receive His Body and Blood, I am talking spiritually and although I love dogs, my 7% Jesus tells me that when we allow real dogs in church we should stop discriminated against same-sex-marriages and longer story still and if you want to know more, you should talk to the ones who are in charge cause I’m not in charge of “The Catholic Church” and if “I” was then they would literally have me removed on “Pentecost Day” before The Mass started before GOD allowed me to take over. 🙁
Gee Victor! There’s nothing wrong with you, “IT’s” the rest of the world!
I hear ya salvage! If you’re living on cloud nine in the real world Victor then for the last 3 days “IT” must have been pretty gloomy in your spiritual reality city if you know what u.s gods mean?
Peace
Every slave owner was free.
Every pro-abortionist was born.
And every fetus is found inside a woman’s body and she is the only one who has any say about what happens to it otherwise she is the slave.
I know your church has taught you that women are subservient and that their opinions are second rate at best but in reality, no, they decide what they do with their wombs.
Oh and no, there have been slaves that went on to become slavemasters. Just as children who were abused by adults go on to become pedophiles themselves.
And then the Church gives them $20,000 for their troubles!
>she is the only one who has any say about what happens to it otherwise she is the slave.
Just for the record, how do you come to this conclusion? Am I a slave because I’m not supposed to have a beer? Or do you not agree with the drinking age restriction, either?
>Just for the record, how do you come to this conclusion?
By understanding that a slave is someone who has no say over their own body. If you tell a woman that she can’t have an abortion you are saying she can’t decide what she does with her life. You don’t see that as at the very least a form of slavery?
>Am I a slave because I’m not supposed to have a beer?
No. Do you know what “slave” means?
>Or do you not agree with the drinking age restriction, either?
Um. Not sure what that has to do with abortion or slavery but yes I agree that limiting drinking to age of majority is a good idea.
had anyone ever found a non-human fetus in a human uterus? While fetuses come in all sorts of species only human fetuses come in human uteri…. salvage believes human fetuses right to life is not equal to the mother’s temporary obligation to carry the human fetus to viability. While he says we make women slaves, we say he makes human fetuses less than slaves, less than even a piece of property. I say abortion contributes to the degradation of women by making sure men will never truly be held accountable for fatherhood. Many women are coerced into abortions by their partners or family members. It is not a anthropologically normal for humans to kill their young no matter how often pro-abortion people insist killing our young is a normal, natural part of life. It is simply not so. Humans have a natural aversion to killing their own kind. That’s why military training has to work so hard (and in modern times very effectively) to get soldiers over their natural aversion to killing other humans. salvage would have us believe mothers have no problem killing their young and yet insists we are the ones with the skewed ideas. I maintain we can do better for women than offer them abortions.
>had anyone ever found a non-human fetus in a human uterus?
Not that I am aware of.
> human fetuses right to life is not equal to the mother’s temporary obligation to carry the human fetus to viability.
Not quite, (I know you need to twist things so you sound like you’re right) it’s more the woman’s right to her body trumps any rights the fetus might have.
>While he says we make women slaves, we say he makes human fetuses less than slaves, less than even a piece of property.
No, I don’t make anything, a fetus is a fetus and a person is a person.
> I say abortion contributes to the degradation of women by making sure men will never truly be held accountable for fatherhood.
Ha! Ha! Yes! That’s it exactly! Women always have abortions when the father won’t help out! Each and every time cuz women are all the same! And there aren’t any laws that will force the father to make a contribution!
You really don’t think about this stuff do you?
>Many women are coerced into abortions by their partners or family members.
Many women are coerced into giving birth by their partners or family members.
But you’d be cool with that right?
See it’s “pro-choice” not “pro-abortion” I know you refuse to think about another position and would rather construct cartoon straw men but forcing a woman to have an abortion is just as bad as preventing her from having one. The idea is that it’s her CHOICE.
> It is not a anthropologically normal for humans to kill their young no matter how often pro-abortion people insist killing our young is a normal, natural part of life.
Better not tell that to anyone who knows their ancient history, biology and anthropology, you might be thought ignorant.
Oh and can you please tell me where “pro-abortion” people say anything of the sort?
>Humans have a natural aversion to killing their own kind.
AHAHAHAHAHAH! What colour is the sky in your world?
> salvage would have us believe mothers have no problem killing their young
yes, that is what I always say! Only I can’t remember saying it, can you show me where I have said such a thing?
See what I mean about strawmen cartoons?
>and yet insists we are the ones with the skewed ideas.
Skewed? Hmm too generous a term. Delusional is more the mot just.
> I maintain we can do better for women than offer them abortions.
It’s amazing, I couldn’t even begin to suggest such a thing, to tell woman what choice to make about their lives, I don’t know them, I don’t know their circumstance so how could I? Yet, you, based on what, your religion, can?
I know theism has a certain arrogance but it always startles me every time it manifests.
So you think abortion is good for women and helps men be more responsible. And I am not concerned that you think I am ignorant. In fact, it’s rather amusing! Some species naturally kill their young, humans do not. A woman’s body is her body but a human fetus’s body is only in her body, not her body. Biologically, we all know that is correct.
You just reminded me that you insist the fetus as only a part of the woman’s body. Beer’s not, so let’s leave it behind (it’s nasty stuff anyway) and find an even better analogy. A draft has been conducted in the usa several times. Were those men slaves? They were being told what to do with their bodies, were they not? How is that different?
Also, I’m not sure when/if you said it was fine for a mother to kill her baby (after he’s no longer in the womb), but you did say she has a right to let him die. Remember the lost-in-the-desert scenario? That baby is a slave, too. He’s not even allowed to nourish his body.
Sabine, you bring up some good points. I’m starting to think, though, that salvage can’t admit when he’s wrong. However, it can be amusing to try to follow his irrationality.
>So you think abortion is good for women and helps men be more responsible.
Yes! That is exactly what I said!
>A draft has been conducted in the usa several times. Were those men slaves?
In a way I suppose but the circumstances are different, an important one is if one refused to participate in the draft for recognized reasons they could refuse.
>How is that different?
Because fighting a war for the survival of your way of life is nothing like a woman having a child she doesn’t want?
But what’s cute here is you’re admitting that forcing women to have children is like slavery and you’re trying to find an example where slavery is acceptable such as a draft. Fun!
>salvage can’t admit when he’s wrong.
Sure I can, please point out where I am in error.
(((Sure I can, please point out where I am in error.)))
“I am” never in error! Sounds like a little sarcasm there don’t you think so Victor?
Come on sinner vic if he says he’s right then he must be right and besides, if he and/or she is lying and you can’t prove “IT” you have no right to call salvage a liar and get away with “IT” unless you can prove “IT” in a court of law.
Butt Victor, we are gods and what more must we do to prove “IT” to your so called 7% Jesus body cells who don’t even exist. Have we not given you stars to watch that you could use as models like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Williams , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Cage , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Willis and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Gibson just to name a few great actors who know The Men in Black. Come on NOW! Show me where and when “I” called salvage a liar Victor and if you can then “I’ll” talk to the wind and have him kiss your butt cause no body in reality could prove such a thing so be careful or we gods will con, I mean convince mother nature to have the win do another job on your new boat!
Hahahaha! That’s very funny sinner vic and you know that you had nothing to do with that accident that the wind did on my new boat which my wife bought for me. True that the wind did brake one of the ropes and let’s just say that on the second occasion and after doubling the rope, I just didn’t tie “IT” as strong as “I” thought “I” did and because of the weather we’ve been having lately, my boat got lose with the help of the wind. sinner vic if “I” was to believe that you were for real, “I” would agree with Canadian salvage that “I” was really crazy and “I” know that “Im” not crazy and only playing a game because, me, myself and i figure that if people have locked me UP in a mental hospital on four occasions for no good reasons then “I” may as well play the part until “I” at least get an apology of some kind. sinner vic, if you do exist then “I” created you but that just can’t be so, cause “I” wouldn’t be able to accept that truth cause I’m not dead yet.
Prove “IT” Victor!
Sorry Jeff but “I’M” not in mental condition to finish this right NOW! 🙂
Peace
You know, salvage, there comes a point when your irrationality is impossible to follow. Like, it’s pretty impressive how you can say I agree on your women-slaves idea. Sheeesh, I just can’t find where I said that.
Point out where you’re wrong? Human fetuses are human persons, for example. Really, it’s useless to point out errors because, like I said, you won’t admit it. Have you ever spent more than a few minutes studying the word person? The way you use it leads me to think you don’t understand it very well.
Tell you what. I’m not interested in long conversations with you (for reasons I won’t bring up again). So why don’t you take the time you would spend replying and use it instead to get a better understanding of “person.”
Lastly, remember that sad fact that I’m entering a monastery? Well, the time’s here and I won’t be able to try to help you through writing anymore. But I want you to know that I’ve been praying for you every day since I “met” you, and I’ll continue to do so as long as I live and, by the grace of God, in the next life. May God bless you with the wonderful grace of conversion.
Catholic pro-lifers, be gentle with our little friend salvage. Even if he does not want to admit it, what he is hearing now will stick with him and eventually, by the grace of God, he may come to understand. It may be discouraging at times, but don’t give up. You all will be in my prayers. May God bless you for your good works.