Despite warnings from Catholic leaders, liberal conference draws large crowd
Calling for reform, Catholics from around the world came to Cobo Center in Detroit on Friday for a three-day conference that’s one of the larger gatherings of liberal Catholics in years. Held by the American Catholic Council, an umbrella group of about 30 liberal Catholic groups, the crowd largely consisted of elderly Catholics who are upset at what they say is the church’s turn to the right.
The Archbishop of Detroit Allen Vigneron warned Catholics to stay away from the conference and said that priests and deacons could be defrocked if they attend a Sunday mass at Cobo.
But that didn’t deter local Catholics from attending, and may even have encouraged them to come, say conference participants. Attendees included everyone from former seminarians to anti-war activists to those calling for women and married priests. All were united in saying that lay people need to have more say in church decision making, such as being able to help decide who becomes bishops and where pastors are assigned. [Source]
So a conference heavily publicized and planned for over a year draws 1 to 2000 people? What even with dissident rock stars Joan Chittister and Hans Kung – (well Kung via a half hour video tape since he isn’t attending)? Celebrating the 35th anniversary of the Call To Action conference with dissidents across the land attending and you call 2,000 people attending a large crowd? The American Catholic Council also has a Facebook page with a whopping 111 likes.
But as other commentators have noted, progressives are spiritual mules that don’t reproduce. Thirty five years later they gather much less people and no bishops at all.
7 comments
What do they mean that laypeople need more say? Don’t they get enough already? Boy, I wish the power had stayed off.
Last Fall in our archdiocese, a similar group drew over 400 to a local dissident event similar to that in Detroit.
The demographics were the same, really old people who were weaned on anti-Vietnam war protests and being “clean for Gene” (McCarthy). And they love to write long manifestos on transferring decision-making to “liberal-Catholics” only.
They don’t realize that the Church is a universal church with over one billion members. A generous of the number of American Catholics puts us at maybe 7%. Dissident Liberals, maybe 1%. But they want to be in charge.
Three days ago, they were predicting 2000. On Friday night, Al Kresta, on-site, estimated 1000 actually there. Is the freep reporter just taking the organizers’ number?
Jeff – they’ve been planning this conference for nearly THREE years, not one. They’ve been holding ‘listening sessions’ for more than half that time. They ought to be embarrassed about the turnout – especially when the World Day for Youth draws hundreds of thousands. That’s where the future of the Church lies, and I trust the Holy Spirit is spreading his grace liberally among that group.
Here are some quotes from commenters over at Catholic Knight’s blog dissenting against his articles discussing the ACC heresy. The last one comes from someone claiming to be a bishop of 35 years.
“What’s so wrong with progress and change? We must see the image of God in all people and empower all to have a voice
Who are we to decide if one is “worthy”
“Do not judge, so that you may not be judged” (Matthew 7:1)”
“As a 61 year old born and raised in the Catholic Church, I personally attest to the Divine move of the Holy Spirit of God through Pope John XXIII and Vatican II. Sadly, the Catholic Church only grudingly tolerated Vatican II and the Charismatic movement of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and minds and lives of the faithful. Our current Pope did everything he could to kill the Vatican II Charismatic movement, and now with the reintroduction of the Latin Mass and many other changes in the liturgy he will continue to seek to destroy any remnant of the move of the Holy Spirit through Vatican II. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit is controlled by no human being. This organization is seeking to right what it’s members perceive as wrongs. Sadly, they either think there is a real chance for reform or they simply are seeking to sensationalize their agenda, which is still largely hidden. The only think for real Christians who follow Christ and attend the Catholic church to do is to pray, seek the LORD’s will, live in obedience to His Holy Word, and pray for the direction, wisdom, and healing of the Holy Spirit to fulfill the will of God in all of our lives, including those in the ACC.”
“Vatican called for Freedom of the Spirit renewal. The Catholic Church today is not “free” at all. I do believe most adults are capable of making good decisions after reflection, they don’t need the archbishop to tell them what to think and how to live. God help us as our church is truly in deep trouble. Those in the ACC are Catholic, not heretics. They have human rights……….and will abide by them.”
“”To live is to change, and to change often is to be perfect” – John Henry Newman
To be able to change and adapt with the times is a sign of growth not vulnerability. Dialogue within the hierarchy of the Church is necessary, especially in light of such abuses of power which resulted in the sexual abuse crisis, not to mention the often hidden financial abuses. Keep in mind, that which is done to the least of our brothers and sisters is done unto Christ (Matthew 25:40)
Dialogue and inclusion should be welcomed as we are a universal Church.”
“It always amazes me how the word ‘heretic’ or ‘protestant’ is used when talking about the laity. I have heard some seriously trite comments from both clergy and laity in my 35 years as a bishop …. all needs to be taken with a lot of salt. Perhaps if everyone stopped calling people names and actually LISTENED to them things would be different.”
“spiritual mules that don’t reproduce”
Sums up the grey hair conference.
Oh dear. I am saddened when they quote Blessed John Henry Newman to justify for their garbage. The line before that often-quoted-out-of-context phrase is:
It changes with them in order to remain the same.
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/chapter1.html
I would wish that serious thought, prayer, and all available means of arriving at a right judgment on the matter in question were things they’ve done, but somehow I doubt it; they seem very arrogant to me, and some of the statements cited above are completely against the Faith. And, b/c conscience also tends to get dragged for their purposes, another fuller quote to explain how Blessed John Henry meant it:
+++
But, of course, I have to say again, lest I should be misunderstood, that when I speak of Conscience, I mean conscience truly so called. When it has the right of opposing the supreme, though not infallible Authority of the Pope, it must be something more than that miserable counterfeit which, as I have said above, now goes by the name. If in a particular case it is to be taken as a sacred and sovereign monitor, its dictate, in order to prevail against the voice of the Pope, must follow upon serious thought, prayer, and all available means of arriving at a right judgment on the matter in question. And further, obedience to the Pope is what is called “in possession;” that is, the onus probandi of establishing a case against him lies, as in all cases of exception, on the side of conscience. Unless a man is able to say to himself, as in the Presence of God, that he must not, and dare not, act upon the Papal injunction, he is bound to obey it, and would commit a great sin in disobeying it. Primâ facie it is his bounden duty, even from a sentiment of loyalty, to believe the Pope right and to act accordingly. He must vanquish that mean, ungenerous, selfish, vulgar spirit of his nature, which, at the very first rumour of a command, places itself in opposition to the Superior who gives it, asks itself whether he is not exceeding his right, and rejoices, in a moral and practical matter to commence with scepticism. He must have no wilful determination to exercise a right of thinking, saying, doing just what he pleases, the question of truth and falsehood, right and wrong, the duty if possible of obedience, the love of speaking as his Head speaks, and of standing in all cases on his Head’s side, being simply discarded. If this necessary rule were observed, collisions between the Pope’s authority and the authority of conscience would be very rare. On the other hand, in the fact that, after all, in extraordinary cases, the conscience of each individual is free, we have a safeguard and security, were security necessary (which is a most gratuitous supposition), that no Pope ever will be able, as the objection supposes, to create a false conscience for his own ends.
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/anglicans/volume2/gladstone/section5.html