WELLINGTON – A church billboard showing an apparently naked Virgin Mary and Joseph in bed together has sparked the ire of conservative Christians in New Zealand.
On the poster, a sad-looking Joseph lies next to Mary, whose face was turned heavenwards under the words: “Poor Joseph. God was a hard act to follow.”
The display was erected outside the progressive St Matthew-in-the-City church in Auckland on Thursday.
St Matthews’s vicar, Archdeacon Glynn Cardy, said the billboard was meant to challenge stereotypes about the way Jesus was conceived.
In the bible, the Virgin Mary became pregnant after an angel appeared to her and told her she would give birth to the son of God.
Cardy said the billboard was meant to challenge literal interpretations of the bible.
“It is intended to challenge stereotypes about the way that Jesus was conceived and get people talking about the Christmas story,” he said. [reference]
You can see the ad here if you are so inclined. Bleh.
Yes live it to a progressive Christian church to turn the Annunciation and the power of the Most High that overshadowed Mary into a stereotype. Yes maybe mix up a little Arianism and Adoptionism or some other warmed-over heresies to break up the stereotype of the truth of a dogma.
“Progressive Christianity is distinctive in that not only does it articulate a clear view, it is also interested in engaging with those who differ. Its vision is one of robust engagement,” he said.
Yes clear as mud. This ad really give me a “clear” view on their Christology – or is that Joseph-son-ology to them? Robust engagement has not exactly been my experience with Progressive Christianity. Disagree with them about homosexual acts and you will have the anathema of homophobia pronounced on you. I prefer dogmas that are true compared to their “dogmas” that aren’t. Maybe it is just me, but I will stick with Jesus being the Son of God.
In another story the government used a poser of Joseph and Mary headed to Bethlehem with the words “This is how Jesus was born, Joseph and May Participated in the Census. Don’t be Afraid. Participate in the Census in 2010. [American Papist]
Funny, I bet we won’t hear cries of Theocracy from liberals with Obama administration use of this poster. The census is not how Jesus was born. Jesus would still have been born even if Caesar had not called for the census. God in his providence used the census to arrange the place of our Saviors birth.
Plus what is up with the “Don’t be afraid” part? Are people really afraid of census workers? Amazing they didn’t add a picture of Pope John Paul II saying his famous “Be not afraid.” I am not afraid of census workers other than that they hire ACORN and other such workers who have no problem filling out false documents to try to inflate congressional districts.
Is their a religious aspect to taking a census? Well King David did get into trouble for calling for a census being that his motives were how to increase power via taxation. The Roman census was much the same in regards to taxation. It is suppose to be that our census is Constitutionally just to determine the amount of representatives in the Congress. Of course more and more they have used the census to compile other information not required such as race. So the moral aspect is of course the abuse of power that surrounds the census. So maybe considering the information is used by politicians to increase/decrease representatives and for stats used by other agencies maybe I really need to be afraid of the census. Especially when the government tells me not to be afraid about something. Don’t worry, be happy, and pay your taxes!
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“Progressive Christianity is distinctive in that not only does it articulate a clear view, it is also interested in engaging with those who differ. Its vision is one of robust engagement,” he said.
That is a lie on its face. I have never known a “progressive” Christian who bothered to venture into “robust engagement” with me, a conservative Catholic.
I have, however, been told I’m stupid and brainwashed and – according to Jimmy Carter – oppressed by the faith I profess and hold dear.
“Progressive Christianity is distinctive in that not only does it articulate a clear view, it is also interested in engaging with those who differ. Its vision is one of robust engagement,”
On what basis does it “articulate” this “clear view” and engage “with those who differ” since it rejects both Scripture and Tradition? therein lies the problem of progressives of every sort. They reject establishment and tradition of any kind and rely on rhetoric and emotionalism. “Progressive” is just another name for “Sophist” or “Relativist.”
Translation of the Progressive Creed into English:
“Progressives believe that the only way to describe God’s awesomeness is just to make up shit.”
Read all about it here: http://themcj.com/?p=8509
From the article you link to: “At Bethlehem, low-life shepherds and heathen travellers are welcome while the powerful and the priests aren’t. The stories introduce the topsy-turvy way of God, where the outsiders are invited in and the insiders ushered out.
Yeah, first of all the insiders weren’t ushered out, they chose not to come. God invites all to come to him, but only welcomes anyone who comes to him honestly. Recall that Herod and the scribes both knew where the Messiah would be born but refused to go (Matt 2:1-12).
Also, Luke (1:30-35) and Matt (1:18-25)-who according to you-apparently can’t be trusted regarding the virgin birth, can be trusted regarding the powerful people and shepherds?
Also, the shepherds and the people of Bethlehem do not come off looking all that well in comparison to Our Lady if one takes account of the Greek text of Luke. “We should exaggerate neither the amplitude not the import of this publicity (i.e, the shepherd’s witness, Lk. 2:18). The close of the account puts us on guard. There seems to be a kind of triptych which appears to have been composed according to design and to have a significance: on the middle panel we see Mary,alone; to one side, the people of Bethlehem in their amazement; to the other, the shepherds who return to their flock. The town to a degree wonders about this affair…but it does not seem to interrupt its usual occupations. The shepherds also go back to their activities…Luke does not say that they indulged in much of a manifestation, nor that they worshipped. (T)he evangelist says formally that the shepherds “returned,” as if to say: not to come back again. the verb stands at the beginning of the phrase, with a certain accent. Moreover, the verb which marks the return of the shepherds to their fields, like that which expressed the wonder of the townsmen behind their counters, is in the aorist; this tense insinuates that it is a question here of fleeting acts and of incidents which pass quickly.”
The author goes on to note that since the shepherds did not have the full revelation of the significance of Jesus they can be exonerated, but where does that leave progressive Christians who have the revelation but choose to ignore it?
The above quote comes from THE MYSTERY OF JESUS, Vol. I, by Pierre Bernard, O.P.,
Apparently, this gaggle of pseudo-christians (I think they are post-Christian adherents of Bacchus and Eros – pagan demi-deities) do not beleive in revealed or absolute/objective truth.
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
It appears they are more familiar with Rosemary’s Baby than the Gospels. What stereotype?
Most tragically, it seems majority of Catholics are closer to that camp than the Truth.
“To get people talking” — that’s as slimy as playing the race card or claiming “You can’t judge me!”
“To get people talking” — that’s as slimy as playing the race card or claiming “You can’t judge me!”
Aye. 1). It’s arrogant (“I’m enlightened. You aren’t, but hey, I’ll teach you.”) 2). It can be an excuse for literally anything.
From the church’s web site:
Christian fundamentalism believes a supernatural male God who lived above sent his sperm into the womb of the virgin Mary. Although there were a series of miraculous events surrounding Jesus’ birth – like wandering stars and angelic choirs – the real miracle was his death and literal resurrection 33 years later. The importance of this literal resurrection is the belief that it was a cosmic transaction whereby the male God embraced humanity only after being satiated by Jesus’ innocent blood. …
Progressive Christianity believes the Christmas stories are fictitious accounts designed to introduce the radical nature of the adult Jesus. They contrast the Lord and Saviour Caesar with the anomaly of a new ‘lord’ and ‘saviour’ born illegitimate in a squalid barn. At Bethlehem low-life shepherds and heathen travelers are welcome while the powerful and the priests aren’t. The stories introduce the topsy-turvy way of God, where the outsiders are invited in and the insiders ushered out.
Progressive Christianity doesn’t overlook Jesus’ life and rush to his death. Rather it sees the radical hospitality he offered to the poor, the despised, women, children, and the sick, and says: ‘this is the essence of God’. His death was a consequence of the offensive nature of that hospitality and his resurrection a symbolic vindication.
… Is the miracle a male God sending forth his divine sperm, or is the miracle that God is and always has been among the poor? …
Fundamentalism believes that Christianity is essentially about individual salvation and admission to an after-life off the planet. What one believes rather than how one behaves is paramount. This planet is merely a testing ground.
Progressive Christianity however emphasizes behaviour above belief. How one treats ones neighbours, enemies, and planet is the essence of faith. The celebration of the birth of Jesus is a celebration of God in every birth and every person.
For fundamentalist Christians the incarnation is about the miraculous arrival of a baby soon to die and by his blood save us. For progressive Christians the incarnation is about the miracle of this planet earth and all life that exists here.
(source)
+JMJ+
I’m not surprised. I lived in New Zealand for two years, and this is typical theology for its Christians.
To Jeffrey: Thanks for the source info – ewwww – what a nasty piece of mean spirited reductionism – good grief –
Obviously this piece of advertisment is not meant to get you to think that Joseph is the father of Jesus but rather that Mary had sex with God (which, of course, would take away her title of virgin). The truth is often more difficult to accept than the fiction (as is true in this case).
As far as the Census poster goes…
The origin of this poster is in a staunchly Mexican community. I would assume that the “Do not be afraid” line is directed at the illegals in the community who don’t want the government to know they are there. I would say that such people have a legitimate fear of this Census. The use of the particular image is disturbing as it seems like emotional manipulation of this population, but hey, this administration is all about emotions isn’t it.
Maybe I’m too progressive but I find the disgruntled expressions on their faces more problematic than sharing a bed and having bare shoulders. As for the robust dialogue, just use the following translation guide:
devout catholic = public dissenter
engaging dialogue = heretical monologue
tolerant = immoral
social justice = spending someone else’s money
judgemental = rejects the glamor of evil
That is about the sickest thing I’ve ever seen. I wonder how “smart” they will think the poster is when they stand before God, and He asks them why they mocked His mother and foster-father. It mocks all true Christians, and at Christmas time is especially vile. There will be a special place in Hell for these sort of “Christians.”
actually, this does make for a powerful argument for the perpetual virginity of Mary. For if Mary were not perpetually virgin, the poster makes a pretty accurate picture of how unfulfilling lovemaking would be in comparison to overshadowing by the Holy Spirit.
Robust is exactly what liberal Christianity is not, which is why it is perpetually shrinking. Secular humanism, agnosticism, even atheism, in all their flavours, are much more robust, coherent, and consistent. Liberal Christianity is basically a sentimental attempt to keep the buildings and ceremony while having essentially secular humanist beliefs. Its followers are mostly Christians who have lost their way, not new Christians. New Christians ,who don’t have a sentimental attachment to building and ceremony, when introduced to liberal Christianity, don’t stay for long. Either they move on to real Christianity, or they end up leaving the church altogether.
Name me one actual person who believes that buying a billboard is actually “robust engagement” with anyone.
You will be pleased to hear that this billboard was openly destroyed twice in its first 2 days. Once by a man who stood on his van and painted over it, and when it was replaced the next day it was defaced immediately by ‘an elderly woman’ with a knife. Both these attacks happened openly in daylight, the first was caught on tv cameras.
After that the “reverend’ gave up but said it had served its purpose – people all over the world were talking about it…so THAT was its purpose!!!
I think the census poster was an attempt to convince illegal immigrants that they should participate in the census without fear that doing so would get them in trouble.
http://www.getreligion.org/?p=23131