Whenever you want to revise the historical events of early Church history you pretty much have to go with some theory of how in the third or forth century evil men supplanted the true Gospel and replaced it with something else. Mormons call it the great apostasy. Dan Brownians place it with the Emperor Constantine. Many groups do roughly the same thing.
Now we once again hear from “church historian” Jimmy Carter.
In opposition to the vast majority of authentic scholars and historians, Carter asserted: “It’s clear that during the early Christian era women served as deacons, priests, bishops, apostles, teachers and prophets.” He added: “It wasn’t until the 4th century or the 3rd at the earliest that dominant Christian leaders, all men, twisted and distorted Holy Scriptures to perpetuate their ascendant position within the religious hierarchy.” [reference]
Well if those “dominant Christian leaders” did such a good job – then how does Mr. Carter know there were women priests and bishops? These men must of done a pretty good job of erasing the record of all these women since historically there is no mention of them in any documents other than the women priests in some heretical sects such as Collyridianism where Mary was worshipped as God. Somehow I don’t think Jimmy Carter and other defenders of woman priests would endorse the beliefs of these heretical groups with women priests. What references to woman priests we actually have in the writings of the Early Church Fathers is a disavowal of them.
Now what Jimmy Carter means by “twisted and distorted Holy Scriptures” is hard to tell. Since the canon of scripture was defined during this time period I guess he says that the evil men who erase the record also managed to define the very books of the New Testament that he accepts. Does he refer to the fact that Jesus only picked men in the Gospels as being a distortion? Otherwise exactly what passages were twisted? No like all of this stripe general assertions is all that is made without a shred of evidence backing up what they say. No doubt President Carter heard someone else make these assertions and then just passes them on like so much of anti-Catholic bigotry.
My real question would be if Mr. Carter says that there were woman priests and bishops in the Early Church then why does he not belong to a church that has priests and bishops. If he accepts this as the structure of the Early Church than why is he a Southern Baptist? Really if you are going to go down the road as to accept the Early Church in the first two centuries than there is a lot of examples that Jimmy Carter is not following. Cardinal Newman said “To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant”. There might be a lot of things Jimmy Carter is deep into, but one of them is not history.
23 comments
This doesn’t serve as a theological proof, but IIRC the deacon part is actually accurate, as a temporarily permitted thing until the doctrine was clarified, if not otherwise.
KKaairos,
Though there is no mention of the deaconesses being theologically on par with the deacons. The word simply means servant and the early deaconesses helped with things like full immersion baptism for women. What is evident from the Early Church Fathers is that in fact these Deaconesses were not seen the same way and was expressed so in the Council of Nicaea Canon 19. Though until this was defined there certainly might have been some confusion about this.
Jimmy is a Christian and desperately wants to find some good there. The truth is that women never got any equality out of the Church and never will.
It’s just one of the reasons why the Church is dying now.
I thought I remembered hearing Jimmy Carter severed ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, and a quick search found this: http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/21/us/carter-sadly-turns-back-on-national-baptist-body.html
Seems he left after they came out against female pastors.
I grew up among Southern Baptists, and you’d have had to look a long time to find any who favored female preachers, let alone deacons. This was the 1970s and ’80s. Unless things were very different in rural GA than in rural MS, surely Carter would have noticed the mood was generally against women pastors long before the SBC decided they needed to speak out on it. Call me suspicious, but I can’t help but wonder if his move may have had something to do with the negative publicity the SBC got in the national press after their announcement on women pastors.
Mizzuh Carter is a material heretic & wants to do to Christianity what he did to the US. Thanks for nothing!!
Women can’t beget children, nor can men conceive them; but I don’t recall ever hearing any Christian inveigh against God (or any atheist against nature) for these exclusions.
An immigrant, even if he becomes a legal citizen of the US is not allowed to become President, but does this make him any less an American? Any less human?
If (forgetting God for the moment) nature can establish a diversity of functions and roles and abilities that cannot or ought not to be transcended; and if human prudence can establish a restriction of roles for the common good and order of the country, then why is it that so many have trouble with God establishing a male priesthood in the Church?
If I were a millionaire and I decided to dole out my wealth to a group of men (or women)-is it not my prerogative to do so? If a peanut farmer were to come forward and object to whom I have chosen to give my money to, do I not have the right to tell him to get lost? God’s gifts are His to give, not our to claim for ourselves.
Just when I had decided Carter is just about the dummest, most useless oxygen thief on two legs, reddog muddies the issue.
I bet reddog is one of the 23% so stupid as to believe Obama’s not the worst president since Carter.
“It’s just one of the reasons why the Church is dying now.”
I wouldn’t call a Church with a positive growth rate (especially in the Third World) “dying”. You are confusing the Catholic Church with mainstream Protestantism, whose memberships are in free fall. Coincidentally, those are the churches that are simply dying to ordain female and gay ministers.
Since leaving office Jimmy is always good for a laugh. Which about describes his four years in office too.
CommunistDog thinks that the Church is dying. No… conservative dioceses are experiencing an explosion of vocations. Limp-wristed sixties liberal perversions of the Church are dying; the Church herself is doing just fine.
We’re returning to our senses regarding pedophiles and homosexuals. The liberals are next. Bang that shoe all you want, tovarisch. You won’t be burying anybody.
Now, now…reddog never lets the actual facts get in the way of his ongoing diatribe against the Church. My guess is that even if he doesn’t like Carter he will operate under the adage that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Don’t get me wrong, I do so appreciate his ongoing efforts to troll on in here to tell us what evil and/or stupid morons we loyal Catholics are and to inform me and other clerics for one thousandth time that I and all other clerics are homosexual predators feeding off the ignorance of the christian faithful, however, you know and I know that facts for him would be classified, at best, as anecdotal and at worst as outright bias and prejudice. But, as he is so much brighter than we are…who needs stupid old facts to back your bias?
Interesting post, except, as Suzanne said, Jimmy Carter did leave the Southern Baptist church. In fact, the quote is taken from an article he wrote to The Observer back in July when he left.
http://www.romancatholiccop.com/2009/07/why-jimmy-carter-is-wrong.html
If women were priestesses and deaconesses (and I recall a few references to bishopesses who functioned analogously to deaconesses), why didn’t they have the authority to oppose the upper echelons of the male hierarchy? Because they weren’t actually priests or deacons or bishops, after all, perhaps?
One sign of early Alzheimers disease is people “make up” stories to fill where their memories fail them. But as for professor Carter–he’s been that way for a long while.
He got it from a friend who heard it from a fellow who says it’s true.
The funny thing is, in that Observer article, Carter claims not to be a theologian. Then he gives a talk which pretty much proves the point.
What I found despicable about his talk was making the illogical leap from all-male priesthood to real abuse against women, like rape, genital mutilation and spousal battery. He conveniently neglected honor killings – remember the Islamic TV station owner from Buffalo who beheaded his wife? Now that’s actual religious intolerance of women. But because it’s Islam, he stays silent.
Just ignore reddog. He doesn’t have the nerve to come back and defend his drive-bys, so don’t give him the satisfaction of acknowledging his ignorance.
Just ignore reddog. He doesn’t have the nerve to come back and defend his drive-bys, so don’t give him the satisfaction of acknowledging his ignorance.
I disagree. Some trolls are good. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Kinda like the Jack Chick tracts–a rational person encountering is going to notice that he protests too much. That is, the Catholic Church is portrayed as so awful that no one could possibly remain or join it. Leading one to the conclusion that there must be more to the story. I call this negative witness to Truth.
Poor Mr. Carter – his presidency was and is an embarassment. He misses the limelight so much he must say or do something every few years to get himself back in the headlines since he is rarely sought out for interviews or attention any other time. When he won the Nobel prize (!) a few years ago he was so preening that I was embarrassed for him.
I disagree. Some trolls are good. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
Yeah, but is it really fun when dismantling reddog’s insipid arguments is *that* easy?
I am a woman who has not been abused or oppressed by Catholicism. But, according to reddog, I don’t exist…
That’s okay, Amy P, you an join me in the “Land of things that don’t exist in Reddog’s world”…I’m a heterosexual priest who wouldn’t even think of abusing any of his flock 🙂
Fr. Bill P:
Yay! Company in the Land of Make-Believe. 🙂
Special prayers for you in this, the Year of the Priest.
“These men must of done a pretty good job…”? or “These men must have done a pretty good job..”?