Via Fr. Longenecker.
This article from the Daily Telegraph says priests in the Diocese of Leeds in England have been advised to stop saying ‘Good Morning’ to their congregations at the beginning of Mass.
We have to get rid of the Tonight Show approach to liturgy. Guy comes on stage, “Howya’all doing? Anybody heard any good jokes this week? The Lord be with you…” I knew one priest who would discuss the baseball games of the weekend, give out the birthdays in the parish that week, sprinkle in a few jokes, then introduce the penitential rite with something like, “I know we’ve all done things this week that we thought better of afterwards, let’s tell God about it.” He would also make personal comments while distributing communion, “The Body of Christ, hey Mike, I like your new mustache. The Body of Christ, great new Lexus you’ve got in the parking lot Sally”
Totally agree. It cheapens the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by making it like a skit or other piece of entertainment that needs an intro. “Live from Sunday morning it’s Jesus Live!” A false act of community when the Mass is already a corporate act of worship of God.
The celebration of Mass is a corporate act, an act of the whole assembly gathered for worship. All the particular ministries serve this corporate function (GIRM, no. 27). In the Mass, the Church is joined to the action of Christ, the high point both of the action by which God sanctifies the world in Christ and of the worship that the human race offers to the Father, adoring him through Christ, the Son of God, in the Holy Spirit (no. 16). We are joined to this divine action through baptism, which incorporates us into the risen Christ. This action, which lies at the center of the whole Christian life (no. 16) is not initiated by us but by God acting in and through the Church as the body of the risen Christ. It becomes our action only to the extent that we give ourselves to this mystery of redemptive worship. The liturgy is designed to bring about in all those who make up the worshiping assembly a participation of the faithful both in body and mind, a participation burning with faithful, hope, and charity (no. 18). To the extent that we are able to participate in this way, the work of redemption becomes personally effective for each of us. By such participation, the General Instruction says, we make the actions and prayers of the liturgy our own; we enter more fully into our personal communion with Christ’s redeeming act and perfect worship (see no. 54, 55, etc.).
What we need to be is catechized about the reality of the Mass.
22 comments
Amen to that!! I am so sick and tired of the antics of certain clergy! Our deacon always has to “warm up” the “crowd” before Mass. There are the required jokes. (We’ve gotten to the point where many think it is a required part of the Mass … uh… make that “celebration”) He is a liturgical Ed McMahon. And then there is the mandatory part where all visitors are requested to raise hands and tell where they are from. Of course each visitor gets the personalized humorous remark tailored to their home town. It shows how “in-touch” our Deacon is. ENOUGH of this crap!!!
I agree they shouldn’t go into baseball scores or go through staff birthdays but I see no reason why the priest cannot say “Good morning,” and the parish responds, “Good morning, Father.” My priest usually goes right into the Mass after that.
We are people, not robots. No doubt several of you will say that even saying “good morning” is disrepectful in some way or not in keeping with the metrics of the Mass. I am all for a reverent Mass but I “vote” for keeping a simple greeting.
Now, liturgical dancers….
Dear Delibabe:
It is vitally important that the priest DOES NOT say “Good morning!” or any time reference during the Mass.
First: It’s NOT IN THE RUBRICS. If it’s not in the black, he shouldn’t say it; if it’s not in the red, he shouldn’t do it.
Second: I’m improvising from some Father Jay Scott Newman ideas, and I may mess this up, but here goes — When we’re at Holy Mass, we should, ideally, have left chronological time and entered forever-time, kairoitc time. It should be the presence of the eternal sacrifice being presented constantly at the Court of Heaven in the New Jerusalem. If the priest makes an unauthorized time reference, the kairotic time crashes away and we get stuck in the mud of mere chronological time.
It may not be “friendly,” but we’re not supposed to be “making friends” at Holy Mass — we’re supposed to be worshipping. You can make friends at Sparky’s Diner afterwards.
Another thing is the stand up and greet everyone and make them welcome at the beginning of Mass. Then, of course, we have to shake and hug a little later in the ‘sign of peace’. Rather redundant to say the least and breaks up the prayerful preparation for the Mass.
Yes, the ‘who is having a birthday’ thing is worse.
This is all in line with the false theology of the Mass that it is all about the gathering of the assembly and we are so great.
I disagree & I agree
I’m okay with “good morning” or even bringing up some current event- a plane crash, something timely to keep in our prayers. We are not separate from the world- we live in it. I agree, Dellbabe we are not robots.
On the other hand, distributing communion saying, “Body of Christ, nice Lexus Sally,” that’s just wrong.
Here, here. My father’s parish begins with announcing birthdays, complete with everyone clapping. Yeesh.
Here is a design I did with Pope Benedict XVI and his words regarding applause in church. It is one of the reasons I attend the TLM.
I agree totally with P. McGrath, above, and have always made the distinction between the formal language appropriate to liturgy, and the informal language that may be used outside it. The worst abusers are those who begin the mass in the formal way, and then switch into an informal style to “greet” the congregation. There may be extraordinary circumstances when something must be said by the priest before the liturgy begins, but even then the tone should be formal. I think the ruling you mention in the post is a good one.
Was it Cardinal Newman who mentioned that the driving thought behind liturgical innovation was:
anything to escape the same old boring routine of consuming the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity Our Lord?
Wow… Joe Roe and I must attend the exact same service… I nearly come out of my skin every week when we get to the announcements and visitors skit. Today, our deacon joked about not joking… said he was “Playing it straight” today. (((sigh))) The congregation is so conditioned… they laughed right along…
Mike Walsh,
Yes I am with you.
At my parish our new pastor starts formally with the sign of the cross but then does a pre-homily: in today’s gospel we learn about blah blah blah – instead of going right into the liturgy. Blech.
I am all for a reverent Mass but I “vote” for keeping a simple greeting.
It’s already there. “Dominus vobiscum” or “The Lord be with you.” It’s simple and to add to it is not only redundant…it’s a comedown.
Agreed – the greeting is already there, and there is no need for priests to preface the homily at the beginning of Mass. In the words of Fr. Z. – Say the black; do the red.
From everything I’ve read, too often the Holy Mass descended to a level on the TBN/Benny Hill programs. The Presby church I attend does say “Good Morning”, but when our minister is in attendence it also has a sense of holiness. I can say this because I’ve also been a participant in both the Baptist and the Unitarian faith services, and neither of them quite embraces the Divine.
Priestly ad libs during Mass, or longish explanations of symbols, etc. are a sure sign that the priest doesn’t trust the liturgy to do what it does best. “The Lord be with you” is “Good morning” in liturgy-ese. Why repeat the greeting?
Also, these antics demonstrate that the priest doesn’t trust the dummies in the pews to “get it,” so all this mysterious stuff has to be explained in order to be significant. A prof said to us one time in seminary, “If you have to explain a symbol, it ain’t a symbol!” Amen to that.
One of the reasons I will not use the Book of Blessings is that there are no blessings in the book! Lots of prayers that discourse endlessly on meaning and occasion but never a prayer that says, “I bless __________ in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”
Fr. Philip
Our parish is so large and cold-seeming to newcomers that I think that the introduce yourself to those around you you don’t know is community-building.
It seems to be a good fit in our large parish, and Msgr. clearly deliniates when Mass starts. Msgr. walks to the front before Mass, asking us to greet one another, and then gives a few words about the topic of today’s readings. Then, asking the congregation to prepare a place in our hearts for Jesus in silence, he goes to the back and processes in. Doesn’t add anything to the rubrics from the time Mass actually starts.
In Christ’s peace and joy,
Robin
What we got recently: Sign of the Cross, then the Lord be with you. Right away. birthday announcements for the Deacon, then the DRE, followed by a request for the congregation to sing “Happy Birthday”. I almost bailed right then! The Mass continued after that, but I very seldom feel as if it’s been a Mass. At the Vigil Mass for Palm Sunday (i.e., Sat. evening), we were “treated” to the folk group, which requested us to joing in songs that nobody knew, and performed them (excuse me) in a totally half-assed fashion. I’m a musician, and this was pretty painful to listen to. The woman in the pew behind me said, “Do you suppose this is part of our punishment?” Another lady said, “Well, at least there are young people singing in church”, to which I replied, yes, but they (and God, and the congregation) deserve much better material. Sorry for ranting, but it really gets to me sometimes. I do ask God to turn off my inner critic, and make it a priority to focus exclusively on Him — practice makes perfect!
Finally, here’s a link to the Daily Telegraph story that started this whole thread. (Hat tip: Rich Leonardi).
From the article:
Clergy attended a meeting last month to hear about the work of The International Commission of English in the Liturgy, which is producing a new English translation of the Latin mass which will be used in churches next year.
Priests at the meeting, held in the Diocese of Leeds, were told to question whether it was appropriate to say “good morning” once the priest was on the altar and had made the sign of the cross.
Following the meeting, some priests in the diocese told their congregations that they would no longer greet them in an informal manner at the start of services.
A spokesman for the diocese said: “The review of the liturgy is looking at whether there are elements of the service that have become a bit too distracting.
“People might argue that if you go in to a house, you say ‘hi’, but the priest is not going in to a house. He is going in to a sacred service. We need to emphasise that the priest is president of the community and is presiding at the service.
“It is a debate that has been going on in the Church for a long time – are we doing a cabaret or are we actually celebrating the Eucharist?
I can handle a simple “Good Morning”. And we suffer through applause prompts here and there. But I’d really like to keep the Disney songs away from the altar.
I wish I were exaggerating about that one. Yikes. It’s as if people are deaf to the inappropriate content of “special event” songs. As if anyone who is shocked to hear, during Mass, that “every rock and tree and creature
Has a life, has a spirit, has a name” is a nutcase. Even if it is Thanksgiving, do we have to sing about rocks having spirits?
And just because it’s Veteran’s Day, should we have to receive Communion to the tune of “Proud to be an American?” And yet, the majority of parishioners rave about how wonderful this junk is, and ask for more of the same…
Maybe if all secular holidays (an oxymoron, no?) are erased from the calendar we’ll recover. As it is, I can’t remember which came first, the “good morning”s or the liturgical musical theater. Just prayin’
“It is a debate that has been going on in the Church for a long time – are we doing a cabaret or are we actually celebrating the Eucharist? “
I do not equate saying good morning with a cabaret. This is a little reformed smoker-ish. It’s another way of saying “I was not able to stop the theater antics, so now even using a simple greeting is off base.”
I get what a few of you have said about the part where the priest says “the Lord be with you.” It’s a fair point. However, and I’m not trying to be a buster, I still do not have a problem with a good morning when a group gathers. I don’t think more than that is appropriate. There is a time when the Mass begins. I suspect we might be arguing over/discussing the Latin Mass or the post Vatican II Mass, when this stuff is boiled down.
I go to a parish in upper Manhattan (Good Shepherd) run by Capuchin Fransicans and they take the Mass pretty seriously. They are very particular about the metrics (now that I have my trusty book that someone cited here some months ago), about having a reverent Mass, and are always pointing out exactly Whose presence we are in (vis a vis the clothing people wear, the distractions in church, and the bulletin having actual content and not just logistics or feel good stuff (a pro-life notice, to boot, which is more than I can say for a lot of churches). And well prepared homilies! Yet they are an open and inviting group and are easily conversant with their flock. Contrast that to another church in NYC that I sometimes go to, where the young priest who dresses like John Bosco doesn’t have a single people skill to match all his book smarts. He’s very serious; helps the religious store next to the church select their books, and he leans towards the conservative. However, the guy never says anything to anyone. He’s stiff as a board and completely aloof. I’ll take an irreverent good morning and some connective tissue to a guy who may be socially stunted but is really good at reciting rules. There’s a place for rules, and there’s a place for human behavior, like saying “hi” when a group of fellow believers gets together. And, they might just exist right next to one another.
You can probably tell, I do not hold to the view that only the Latin Mass will do. I think too many – way too many – churches have gone astray and I now happily see “a coming home to Jesus,” as it were. Still, a post Vatican II Mass done reverently is something not only possible but beautful when done well. Took me a long time to find my parish (and I joined and left two others before finding this one) but good one’s are out there. It’s a friendly place, too. Some of you in NYC may want to drop by! (poke intended).
Another pet peeve: In one of the parishes I attend, when the priest says “The Lord Be With You”, and we reply “And also with you”, he says “Thank you”. aarrrrgh
A more problematic one – our priest nows gives a synopsis of the readings & Gospel prior to the first reading. This started after some former hippie priest subbed one week and gave some long, rambling dissertation at the beginning of the Mass. I practically fell asleep before he finished. Now, for some reason, our priest ( a basically good one ) decided this was a good idea. I don’t understand the point of this, but it dovetails with everything else that we’ve come to expect from our Mass – general banality sprinkled in with secular stupidity.
But thankfully, someone out there is recongizing that the Mass is not some big social get-together.
Catechize on the Mass: Understanding the Mass would solve so many problems, rippling thru the clergy and laity both. Problems such as rubrics, behavior of people, choices in music, general prayer life, overall attitude, etc. Teaching this would also deepen understanding of the old Mass and the other rites of the Church. I’ve often considered that if religion classes focused solely on teaching the Mass, the living of Faith would surge.
Unfortunately, the last class I taught here, only 2 out of the 18 [confirmation] students attended Mass regularly. These kids didn’t even know the basic routine of Mass parts. Its hard to know where to start – these kids argued that Jesus is the Son of God…a new concept to them.
I recently learned that “hosanna” means ‘have mercy’.
too often the Holy Mass descended to a level on the TBN/Benny Hill programs.
You mean Benny Hinn, right? 🙂
On what I hope is a related topic, does anyone else feel this way about being prodded to stand during communion? I don’t mean remaining standing for the whole prayer, but proceeding normally, kneeling for the centurion’s prayer, and then getting right back on your feet until everyone has received as a sign of “standing with and showing your support for fellow parishoners.”
Standing is a perfectly adequate posture and an ancient practice, I realize, but when I see a reminder in the bulletin or hear in before/during mass about a “longstanding tradition” I hardly saw anywhere more than five or ten years ago, I picture some committee of aesthetically minded but modern and ignorant laymen going over the rubrics and muttering “stand together…yeah…or, or hang separately. That’s good, that’s good; let’s work it in somewhere.”
Anyway, this isn’t like clapping for the choir or after the finance committee makes its report instead of having a homily, so I still follow the practice of whatever parish I’m in, but I’m always put off by this “moral support” verbiage. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m distracted every time with the thought that I do or don’t need an extra gesture of solidarity from people in other pews when I’m walking up to receive.