From Domenico Bettinelli:
If anyone was still under the misapprehension that Dignity, the homosexual-activist Catholic group, was in fact Catholic, the fact that they have a pretend-ordained woman set to preside over their Gay Pride “Mass” should dispel that notion.
Dignity/NY, the LGBT Catholic group, will have a woman preside over its Gay Pride Mass for the first time on June 23 at 7:30 p.m. at the Judson Memorial Church on Washington Square South. She is the Reverend Victoria Rue, a Roman Catholic womanpriest who was ordained by three Roman Catholic womenbishops in 2005.
Here’s hoping that the “menbishops” of the Church in the US once and for all order all of their diocesan ministries to homosexuals to sever all ties with Dignity, because it is a heretical group.
Well there is a bright side. With a women "priest" they won’t be taking Communion sacrilegiously, in fact they won’t be receiving Communion at all.
It is almost a rule that if a group uses dignity in their title that their positions are at odds with Church teaching. Euthanasia groups are also prone to use the term in titles for their groups.
Dignity USA on their FAQ says conscience like:
Neither Scripture nor Tradition nor natural law theory nor human science nor personal experience convincingly supports official Catholic teaching about the immorality of homogenital acts. Accordingly, and after much soul-searching, many gay and lesbian Catholics have formed consciences that differ from official Church teaching and have entered into homosexual relationships. In this respect they are exactly like the many married Catholic couples who cannot accept the official teaching on contraception.
Of course they like to quote from Church documents that rightly teach about how those with same-sex attraction are to be treated. So if a Catholic went against Church teaching and decided his conscience allowed him to treat homosexuals as an "object of violent malice in speech or in action" I doubt they would consider this a valid following of conscience that "differ from official Church teaching." The following of a conscience formed outside of the Church if it proves anything, proves too much.
Maybe one day good and faithful groups such as Courage will get as much support as Dignity does by prominent diocese.
13 comments
Here’s the sitch I’ve been struggling with in my own family, perhaps y’all can help. My brother’s wife’s sister, “Margie,” came out two years ago, and now has a serious girlfriend. I love Margie to pieces, we hang out all the time, and I love my brother’s whole set of in-laws as well. Both his family and mine are Catholic, but I’m the only orthodox one. Everyone else is pretty cafeteria, on lots of issues, but Margie’s coming out has made them really angry at the Church about homosexuality in particular.
I’ve noticed in the past year lots of agressive comments directed at me by my brother’s wife, or his father-in-law, at family functions. Not genuine questions, but the kind of stuff you say when you want to pick a fight. Not because I’ve said anything about Margie, but because it’s known that I’m orthodox. So far, I’ve avoided engaging in any of this, but I feel like a showdown is inevitable. Someone is going to ask me a direct question about Margie’s lifestyle, in front of everyone, and I’m going to be all alone at the dinner table, staring at a sea of angry family members, all waiting to shout, “homophobe!” at me.
How can I, in such a charged situation, get away with, “I love ya, but I disagree with you?” When I’m faced with all that angry hatred and no support, what can I say that can both diffuse the tension, and also make clear that yes, I love Margie, but I also disagree with her choice?
“Accordingly, and after much soul-searching, many gay and lesbian Catholics have formed consciences that differ from official Church teaching…”
Hm, yes, I bet it took them aaaages to come to the conclusion that homosexual acts were perfectly moral. And I wonder what that process of conscience formation looked like? Probably they read a few books by people they knew agreed with them.
(N.B. I know the above does’t apply to all of these folks – but I suspect it does to many).
A lot of people don’t realize that forming one’s conscience DOESN’T just mean saying “Right, this is what I believe and now I’m going and find ways of justifying that belief.” It means evaluating our own preconceived opinions critically and being open to the possibility that (gasp!) we might be wrong and the Church right.
Womanpriest? Womanbishop?
They mean Priestess and High Priestess, don’t they?
Speaking from experience, once a gay person starts down the road of trying to find ways to justify how they “feel,” they start finding “truth” everywhere (read moral relativism). All the time I spent in the gay community, I was just so angry. Resentful. And deep down I *KNEW* (and was afraid to admit) I was wrong. It really is only by God’s grace that a SSA person can admit that what they “feel” is disordered & they have a responsibility, as a Catholic Christian, to try and understand/live the Church’s teachings on homosexuality. Also, the ironic fact is that the Catholic Church (seen as the arch nemesis from within the gay community) is really the most humane & loving. The Catholic Church does not say that homosexual persons MUST change their sexual orientation, or make them feel guilty for “being” a homosexual. They must, as all single persons, strive to live celibate and chaste lives. Unfortunately, because so many homosexual persons’ IDENTITY (and this is a crucial point) is wrapped up in their sexual orientation (vs. the fundamental identity we should all experience – “child of God”), they experience the Church’s teachings as a personal rejection. Listen, folks: it took me a LOT of years and a LOT of prayer to discover this, so please continue to give gay persons lots of prayer & a listening ear; no matter how militant/angry/hateful they may seem to be. There’s a lot of hurt there that can only be converted through grace and love. The national Courage Conference this year is Aug. 2nd – 5th. Please keep the Conference, Courage members, and active gay persons in your prayers. God Bless.
That was beautifully stated, Jeron. Coincidentally, just after reading Jeff’s post, I wanted to ask how Courage feels about heterosexual Catholic speakers quoting stats on “change of orientation”. I understand that their intention is to offer hope for anyone who seeks change, but it comes out as a judgment against anyone who hasn’t “changed” and a rejection of the characteristics of persons as they are. (Does that make sense?) Anyway, I think you just answered my question.
Next question is: How, during a legislative battle, do we convey that we love certain people as if they were our own skin, but we can’t let them dictate lies, and we won’t insult them by telling them that whatever they want and feel they need is right and good because it is their desire?
And how do you tell people they’re being used? Will they not hear it, just as abused women and prostitutes and drug addicts don’t hear it til they’re ready? (According to Josyp Terelya, the USSR used homosexuals as WEAPONS in the gulag, thereby ridding themselves of dangerous “rebels” and “cleansing” society simultaneously. Who is using the homosexual population now? There must be money or power behind the agenda somewhere.)
Here in RI, I feel like we’re in a death struggle with people we love, and there’s no way NOT to fight because future generations and our own children are at stake.
I’ve heard Fr Harvey (founder of Courage) speak several times. He’s absolutely wonderful (in his 80’s and still going strong!) He always says that Courage does not say people must try to change their orientation, since there is no moral obligation to try and do that. The moral obligation is to live a chaste life, no matter what one’s orientation is. Fr Harvey stresses that it’s not certain that it’s possible to change, so there cannot be a moral obligation for something that is not necessarily attainable.
Joanne:
I wrote the following (among other things) back in November when the USCCB released its document on homosexuality, which addresses your question directly. (There’s internal links at that post to where I elsewhere had made clear my personal skepticism about orientation change.)
Sr. Lorraine: well stated. Joanne, you asked how do we convey to SSA persons during a legislative battle that we love them while not confirming them in their sins? Good question. I can only use my own family as an example. Whenever I’d come home to visit, inevitably the talk turned to politics & a couple of my harsher siblings would throw veiled passive-aggressive epithets around. But my sister-in-law, always loving and patient, would tell me to my face: “Sorry, Jer, I love ya but I gotta disagree. The Church teaches (insert topic here) and the Bible states (insert here) and that’s Truth with a capital ‘T’.” It angered me because I felt she wasn’t listening, but upon further reflection I discovered that what angered me the most was the fact she was right and I couldn’t refute her statements. But what helped to turn me around was REMEMBERING how LOVING she was in her admonitions of me and how she lived her life. Follow by example. Teach and admonish in love. Be patient but firm. We may not see the fruit of such actions immediately, but seeds will be planted. And if the hearers are persons genuinely seeking Truth, they will be led home. I really do believe it is just that simple.
…a Roman Catholic womanpriest….
Ugh. *rolls eyes and vomits* Is “womanpriest” really supposed to be the official neologism for priestess? I thought people just kept trying to use “woman” as an adjective and were dropping the intermediate space. “Womanpriest” nearly sounds too Orwellian to be taken seriously.
I’m sticking with “priestess.” When it’s not feasible to say “she’s not a priest,” anyway.
Many questions answered there. Many thanks to all who addressed the questions. Lots to think and pray about. It sure is difficult to combat the lies swallowed and repeated by those promoting same-sex marriage while simultaneously conveying charity, especially when people of faith are being bullied because of their faith.
The reality that believing Catholics are all suffering this same conflict at least is evidence that the homosexual lifestyle is NOT just all about the couple directly involved.
This “Well there is a bright side. With a women “priest” they won’t be taking Communion sacrilegiously, in fact they won’t be receiving Communion at all.” is priceless. The empty minded leading the empty for without Christ we are indeed empty.
homogenital acts? Does anyone else find the irony in this made up word? Genital, meaning to do with production or generation of offspring is so contradicted by homosexual its not even funny. Homosexual, yes thats probably an apt description, but how can something be homogenital? Its impossible very act of generation requires hetero, both sexes!