Sacerdos in Aeternum posts on a Kansas City Star article that is rather strange. The women who wrote the article must be the Pollyana of progressives. An optimist with a large imagination.
Yes, I know all about the chances of snowballs surviving in the netherworld, but I still think Pope Benedict XVI is moving toward ordaining Catholic women.
Of course it contains the usual misinformation that women in the early Church acted as deacons, without mentioning that the normal role of deaconesses in the early Church was helping to baptize women in full immersion fonts.
Three times in the last year or so, the pope’s comments leaned in that direction. The telltale words are “governance” and “ministry.” Each is technically reserved to the ordained.
In the flood of ideas coming from the scholar-pope, the theme of charity stands out. Would a pope turning 80 on April 16 ordain women to minister in charity?
A year ago, a Rome priest publicly asked Benedict if women could be included formally in Church governance and ministry. Surprisingly, Benedict said yes. He said so again on German television last August.
The idea that “governance” and “ministry” is only for the ordained is just a form of clericalism and a form of it that I guess progressives are for.
Of course Cardinal Razinger replied in a Dubium:
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
But I guess since he didn’t say "Hell no" that leaves some room for "telltale" signs.
When Benedict talks about women, he always begins by deflecting the idea of women priests, pointing out that Jesus chose male apostles from among his men and women disciples. Such is the Catholic Church’s fundamental argument against women priests.
But that has nothing to do with women deacons. In fact, Benedict has now — three times — reiterated that women were actively engaged in Jesus’ ministry. And “ministry” is the key word when we’re talking about deacons.
Ministry is what deacons do: They minister in and through the word, the liturgy and charity. Deacons preach. Deacons participate in the Mass. Deacons manage the Church’s charity, or at least they used to.
Deacons watched over the stores and treasures of the early church. They cared for the poor and the orphaned, for the homeless and the widows with church funds, properties, and possessions. They even paid the salaries of the priests.
I guess if you are not ordained a deacon you can not care for the poor and the orphans. The homeless and widows need help, but sadly you have to tell them that you are not a deacon.
That may not be the case today, but it begs the question: why not? As Catholicism is increasingly bereft of priests it is concurrently flooded with deacons — there are over 15,000 in the United States alone. These are capable men, able to run a parish plant, manage Catholic charities, or oversee the cemeteries or the various aid societies of a parish or a diocese. They can free priests to do priestly — rather than diaconal — ministry.
What exactly is a "parish plant?" I assume it is not some potted plant but perhaps a view of the parish as some kind of sacramental factory. Once again though I can’t see from her example why anybody can perform the jobs she cited and not be ordained.
If Catholicism were to return to its older tradition, that would add women to the mix. Then women could oversee church money and properties on behalf of the pastor or the bishop. What if women watched where the money went? Perhaps then there might be more money around for the poor and maybe fewer financial scandals.
You learn something new everyday. I was not aware that original sin applied only to men.
And what if women deacons ministering in charity could preach each Sunday? Would not the church hear more about the way the gospel functions in the real world, here and now, in the 21st century?
Well women can preach all they want. Just not at the homily during Mass.
It’s just a thought, but it might be Benedict’s idea too.
Well as a prophet I hope she keeps her day job.
23 comments
I think what she means by a “parish plant” is a new congregation that hasn’t yet reached parish status. She seems to be proposing that a deacon could oversee this congregation, although I don’t really see how it could function as a congregation without the sacraments only a priest can administer.
Your point about clericalism is well-taken, however. Responding to a priest shortage by reserving “governance” and “ministry” to priests makes no sense to me, and I don’t see a strong argument that it makes sense to the Pope, either. Of course, I’ve been Catholic for a grand total of 12 days, so it’s entirely possible I’m missing quite a lot here, but….
Peace,
–Peter
Can we see this as a sign that they’re giving up? They’ve gone from fighting to wishful thinking, it seems.
Lunacy atop lunacy. First, the bizarre clericalism already noted– “governance” and “ministry” are supposedly reserved for the ordained.
Second– where has she been for the last forty years? In way too many parishes, the ordained priests are, sadly, letting the lady liturgists and educators and “pastoral associates”, effectively run the show. Other than sticking another title onto their business cards, how would suddenly calling them “deacons” change anything?? (I’m *not* advocating women’s ordination to the diaconate, I’m just trying to follow her “logic…)
“If Catholicism were to return to its older tradition, that would add women to the mix. Then women could oversee church money and properties on behalf of the pastor or the bishop. What if women watched where the money went? Perhaps then there might be more money around for the poor and maybe fewer financial scandals.”
Oh, the financial scandals will still be there. The money will just disappear into retail rather than gambling.
“Plant,” according to Merriam-Webster, can also mean “the buildings and other physical equipment of an institution.” This seems to fit into the context, although deacons are usually not caretakers of physical property alone.
Governance of my Catholic grade school WAS handled by a woman in ministry. And Sister Rita did a fine job, so I am all for women in ministry being given positions of governance. And, everything necessary to make it possible is already in place in the Church.
If Catholicism were to return to its older tradition, that would add women to the mix. Then women could oversee church money and properties on behalf of the pastor or the bishop. What if women watched where the money went? Perhaps then there might be more money around for the poor and maybe fewer financial scandals.
If only women could be cabinet ministers, we’d never have gone through Adscam. (1)(2)
(1) Adscam, a political financial scandal which eventually brought down our last government.
(2) Well, actually, there were women cabinet ministers. One of them presided over one of the worst departments. Go figure.
She is very confused, but in some ways church leadership is to blame. It is time that we realize that one of JPII’s serious errors was permitting female altar boys. The natural progression is of course for women deacons.
There is a real underlying problem here– priests are not just sacrament producers. Priests, deacons and bishops are supposed to hold authority over us. They are supposed to be the ordinary ministers of all the sacraments. It is God’s plan that only men be able to be ordained to the three-fold ministry, but we have to also ask why? God could have instituted an all female priesthood, but He knows something about the different natures of men and women. This is why modern society has such a strong problem with the Church’s all male priesthood. It tells them something they already know somewhere about the nature of men and women–something even the Southern Baptist Convention knows in restricting ordained ministers to be women, and they don’t have any priests at all.
We have to look at beginning to allow priests, deacons and bishops to return to their rightful places of authority, and embrace the all male priesthood God has placed over us, rather than allowing sister polyester to be a priest in all things but confecting the sacrament.
should read “Southern Baptist Convention knows in restricting ordained ministers to be MEN”
To the Pollyanna who wrote the KC Star article:
I have this beautiful bridge in Brooklyn I think you’d love. Very affordable. Give me a call!
I can’t speak for all women, obviously, but I KNOW I’d make a lousy deacon! I’d give all the Church’s funds to the first 100 hands that reached out to me. As for the priesthood, can you imagine? You don’t want to. The confessional would float away on my tears!
The reality that we don’t have enough HEADS shouldn’t tempt us to replace the heads with hearts, the priests with the people, etc. Not that women aren’t intelligent, but i have observed, in all my years, that women’s hearts will rule their heads if there is no firmer authority in place. And like it or not (who likes it?) barring hormonal supplements or s’thing, we do cry more. As I discovered years ago when the female captain of our Beechcraft99 (ugh! a tin can of a plane) wept and screamed at the loss of our left engine, passengers are not comforted by the tears of the captain.
Have I just fed myself to an onslaught of feminist outrage? Probably. And does my opinion have anything at all to do with female deacons? Probably not. I’m happy to let the Pope decide this issue.
Peter,
welcome to the Church! May God bless you and keep you in His fold and may you be the good and faithful servant He wants you to be.
Roberto
Not that women aren’t intelligent, but i have observed, in all my years, that women’s hearts will rule their heads if there is no firmer authority in place.
I wouldn’t say that. I think that most women I know would do a better job running the ordinary operations of a parish than the priests.
And in fact, that’s mostly what happens. I’ve seen lots of parishes where the women run most everything and the priest basically follows orders.
That’s not a good thing, but I don’t think women are naturally inefficient in the parish environment. The toughest most efficent people in the world seem to be old Catholic matriarchs with nine children and a score of grandchildren.
As Catholicism is increasingly bereft of priests it is concurrently flooded with deacons
Doesn’t that mean we don’t actually need more deacons? Unless the Church is in the business of force-ordaining priests…
The biggest problem with this article (and really the laity’s understanding in general) is that she sees the priest only for what he does and not who he is. The priest is not a mere functionary; he is an alter Christus–one who makes Christ and His grace present to His faithful. This happens most fully in the Eucharist, where the priest acts in persona Christi, speaking His words “This is My body” as his own. And the Church says that the priest’s “maleness” is a necessary part of that, and a deacon’s identity is related to the priest.
“What if women watched where the money went? Perhaps then there might be more money around for the poor and maybe fewer financial scandals.”
I love that kind of argument, as though we women are somehow more trustworthy than those good-for-nothing men – what sexism. Yah, we had a DRE in our parish, self-appointed in charge of counting the collection, caught finally after stuffing large bills down her pants for many years. She blamed the Church for not paying her enough…
I wasn’t aware that only women had an idea of how the Gospel applies to the 21st century. News to me.
Of course, and how sexist of you to even think otherwise!
Thank you, Curt Jester, for the tip of Jester’s cap!
You already know what I think of the article. But, as far as the Church being “flooded” with deacons, that is simply not true – no parish to which I have been assigned has had a deacon (at least in my tenure). Furthermore, it misses the point. We could ordain a hundred deacons every year, but it would not do much to shore up the shortage of priests! Deacons are not priests, they are two different roles, two different functions, they come with different ontological meaning. (Granted: a priest is first ordained to the diaconate)
What an idiot this woman is. I wouldn’t want to see female deacons anymore than I would want female priests.
If she read her Church history, deaconesses were something altogether different. They didn’t assist the priest at Mass: they took care of the women converts and assisted them at baptism!
These whiny females should either put up or shut up, or go to the Piskies….we don’t need them!
Also-I wouldn’t want to go to a ‘priestess’ for confession. Women are notorious gossips; they can’t keep a secret, much less the ‘seal of the confessional’! Just my humble opinion…
EileenR,
It’s that “running” part that we may be defining differently. I had a grandmother who COULD do most any “male” thing better than most males, but she didn’t “run” her household. She was simply the most-able-bodied crew imaginable. I’m not like her, but I sure admire her. I often ask, in tricky situations requiring skills I lack “What would Grandma do?” Because she was best at finding new ways to do whatever needed doing.
What she didn’t do, which I also find admirable, is usurp my grandfather’s role. This is not the case with the women I have met who want to be priests. As to deacons, because the deacon is not an “alter Christus”, i would imagine that if the Pope WANTED female deacons for the Church, it might not be a big deal. The gender of the deacons, either out of my ignorance or valid unconcern doesn’t affect me. But the continued arrogance of the push for female ordination to the priesthood is almost as disturbing to me as the continued promotion of same-sex marriage as a civil right.
Of course, if you read Ruth Bader-Ginsburg’s dissent in the recent Supreme Court decision upholding a federal ban on partial birth abortion, she contends that women are not interested in ministering-they have different agenda.
I wonder which women she thinks she’s speaking for….no one I know!
“And in fact, that’s mostly what happens. I’ve seen lots of parishes where the women run most everything and the priest basically follows orders.”
Reminds me of my dad, hehehe…
Technically, the priest is the head of the parish family. But a head can only turn for so many necks….