Gerald posts part of the transcript for Cardinal Mahony online chat with Adults at this years R.E. Congress.
James: I’ve read that Pope Benedict is concerned about the liturgy and is about to issue a decree that encourages a more generous use of Latin in the liturgy including the use of the Tridentine rite. Do you support this and will you encourage the use of more traditional forms of worship in the archdiocese if he issues the decree?
CardinalMahony: James: of our 5 million Catholics, only a handful are interested in the Latin Mass. I must focus upon the 99% who need a vibrant Mass that includes them in its celebration.
So I guess he will soon cut his Ministry with Lesbian and Gay Catholic since they comprise such a small part of the population. Though there is some good news on this front. It looks like the rainbow fish logo that they had been using on the Archdiocese page is now gone. Amazing what happens when a little national scrutiny occurs.
I guess also some people will be sad to find out that Masses currently offered in Lithuanian, Samoan, Slavonic, Tongan, Ukranian, Armenian, Croation, Haitian, Igbo, and a array of other languages will no longer be offered. These cultural groups don’t fit into the "99% who need a vibrant Mass that includes them in its celebration." Oh wait these groups will continue to have Masses in their Language. You are in luck as long as you want a Mass in any language but Latin.
Notice also the seeming dodge of the Cardinal. No answer about whether he supports the Motu Proprio for the Tridentine Indult. Though considering the call for a "generous application" as specified in Ecclesia Dei he makes Scrooge seem like a spendthrift by comparison.
Moderator: From Fran at Congress: I’ve been asked this and I don’t know — Can Catholics’ burial ashes be scattered?
CardinalMahony: Fran: normally, we encourage that all of the ashes be in one place for the sake of the family and future generations, but if someone wants to spread their ashes over the sea or forest, well, they do return to their origins. Just don’t spread them over Disneyland.
"The practice of scattering cremated remains on the sea, from the air, or on the ground, or keeping cremated remains in the home of a relative or friend of the deceased are not the reverent disposition that the Church requires" (Order of Christian Funerals 416).
Arleen: My daughter asks, why do we need to go to church on Sunday? I attend faithfully, but my daughter is of this younger generation that doesn’t see the importance of going to church. She says it’s boring and all they do is ask for money. How can we make church and the mass more appealing to this younger generation? I try to set an example, but feel like I can’t persuade them. What can I do
CardinalMahony: Mass should involve the full, active, conscious participation of everyone. If we are involved, we love meeting God in this form. There are great Masses for teens, such as parishes with Life Teen. Find her a group of active Catholic teens who love Mass, and she will too.
What that can’t be. Cardinal Mahony says they already have a "vibrant Mass that includes them in its celebration." Maybe the guy’s daughter just happened to find the one non-vibrant Mass in L.A.
Leonel Martinez: Cardinal Mahony, thank you for providing this forum for discussion. Some have suggested that the American bishops have not followed the wishes of Pope Benedict XVI because they have opted not to uniformly deny communion to Catholic elected officials who support abortion rights. How would you answer them?
CardinalMahony: That is not what our Holy Father is asking. Rather, he is asking that everyone who approaches Holy Communion should make sure he/she is living a life worthy of Jesus in this Sacrament. The burden is on the recipient, not on the minister.
It is really hard to be charitable with that answer other than that he has actually never read what then-Cardinal Ratzinger said on the subject. In a letter by Cardinal Ratzinger given to Cardinal McCarrick that was suppose to be presented to the Bishop’s conference (but wasn’t and was unknown until later leaked) called Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion he said:
Regarding the grave sin of abortion or euthanasia, when a person’s formal cooperation becomes manifest (understood, in the case of a Catholic politician, as his consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws), his Pastor should meet with him, instructing him about the Church’s teaching, informing him that he is not to present himself for Holy Communion until he brings to an end the objective situation of sin, and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist.
Funny it seems to me that the burden is on both the recipient and the pastor. The pastor must meet with him and warn him and if ignored be "denied the Eucharist." This is of course totally in accordance with Matthew 18:15-17 and of course Canon 915
Though one charitable explanation for this total lapse in understanding what was written would be that Cardinal Mahony had one of the former translators who use to work for ICEL translate the Cardinals letter from plain English to whatever dynamic language ICEL calls their translations. For example ICEL would translate the final passage to:
… and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist by himself.
The parts of the chat transcript I selected was cherry-picked and mostly the answers he gave were not problematic. Be sure to check out Gerald’s comments.
Update: Gerald posts on another part of the Cardinal’s chat.
Moderator: From Denny: Why can only men become priests, and not women?
CardinalMahony: The moderator has better answers than I do to that question!!!
CardinalMahony: Denny: we are following the tradition of the early Church and Jesus’ actions. That has become our Tradition for a long time.
Gerald notices that the moderator Ellie Hidalgo wrote an article for Busted Halo where she criticized the Vatican for the excommunication of women trying to be ordained and compared Sister Chittister with Moses.
12 comments
The cardinal mentions the 99%, but apparently forgetting that Jesus mentions them too..
Lk 15:4. What man of you that hath an hundred sheep, and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after that which was lost, until he find it?
oooh, good point.
But I think that the good Cardinal also has a point. If 99% of his diocese is used to having a “vibrant” liturgy, don’t you think it’d be a shock if they were to participate in a true, holy, and sacred liturgy? I mean, they might even pray every now and then throughout the mass . . . imagine that.
I got stuck on that 99%, too. It is only a colloquialism, I know, but 1% of a (nominal) 5,000,000 is a cool (presumably church-attending, else why would they care?) 50,000. Are 50,000 people making a single petition to the chancery routinely ignored in LALAland?
Or are those asking for the 1962 Mass only a subset of those who apparently “need” an un-“vibrant” Mass? In which case the archdiocesan Office of Un-vibrant Liturgy will simply have to stretch its resources to care for what is the equivalent five sizeable parishes of people with special “needs.”
You are in luck as long as you want a Mass in any language but Latin.
The Latin Mass is also offered in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.
Is the demand much greater than the supply?
Notice the implied antinomy: Tridentine vs. vibrant. I’ve wondered for a long time just what “vibrant” means; now I have a better idea.
You see it all the time on parish websites and in help-wanted ads for churchy types. It always makes me think of a bunch of tender, affirming people getting together and vibrating.
If “vibrant” were anything other than code for liberal, experimental, groovy, and abusive — if it actually meant something like awe-inspiring or densely symbolic — then I’ll bet the Trid Masses would be the most “vibrant” in L.A.
“On July 16, 1985, Mahony was promoted to Archbishop of Los Angeles, the first native Angeleno to hold the office. Mahony was created Cardinal Priest of Santi Quattro Coronati by Pope John Paul II in the consistory of June 28, 1991.”
Would it be rude to tell Mahoney up-front that you disagree with his sentiments and that he is letting his flock stray? I mean, John the Baptist denounced Herod’s affair to his face, and Jesus himself condemned the hypocrisy of the scribes and pharisees in their presence? At least Mother Angelica had the guts.
Did Cardinal Mahony get his learn’n from Acme Religious Books, and Certificates? This man is pathetically furturistic and narrow minded to say the least. Man…I just see his name and my hair stands on end.
Regarding the women’s ordination issue, I had just spoken with one of the men from my bible study group earlier this morning. He attended the L.A. congress, and relayed information from a deacon at the congress (I did not get his name). This deacon was saying that there was a possibility that women would be able to become deacons. I mentioned to my fellow bible studier that JPII removed all doubt on the issue of women’s ordinations in a document in 1994 where he upheld, defined and declared to all the faithful that only men could be ordained. He said that the deacon said that that was for not allowing women into the priesthood, but that that left the door open for the deaconate.
I stared my fellow parishioner and raised an eyebrow. I didn’t press the point, but it amazes me how weaselly liberal “theologians” and their ilk will twist and loophole their way around any doctrine to make it fit their own pre-conceived ideas.
How old is Mahony anyway? Aren’t we close to having him retire to the same monastery as ArchBshp Weakland?
Or maybe make arrangements for Mahony to go to Walter Reed Hospital. If he doesn’t know how to spread the True Catholic faith, maybe he can paint for a living.
Ethnic Masses are a great gift. So are Latin Masses. But I don’t think you can reasonably argue that there are persons who can’t comprehend the Mass unless it’s in Latin, since Latin is a living language of the Church, but a socially “dead” language. On the other hand, the necessity of reaching out in the language the majority understands is a strong argument for the English liturgy but not AGAINST the Latin Mass.
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