Kathy Shaidle has had several posts relating to forced conversion and in the update of one mentions Caption Ed of Captains Quarters post on this issue.
UPDATE: and with all due respect to the usually right headed Captain Ed: you have it completely backwards. Perhaps you haven’t heard the famous expression "the seed of the Church is the blood of the martyrs." And frankly, I suspect that David Warren knows much more about the early history of Church than you have forgotten, and read about it in Greek and Latin primary sources…
She also posts from the Magic Statistics blog:
"Captain Ed’s implicit equivalence between martyrdom and ‘mindlessly dying’ is, to put it mildly, problematic. As far as I’m aware, no Christian suffered martyrdom without considering whether the situation warranted such a sacrifice. Indeed, Jesus himself warned all who would follow him to give careful thought to possible consequences of so doing. (See St Luke 14:25-33 and St Matthew 8:18-22.)
"As a matter of fact, Christians were indeed subject to sudden and often apparently random attacks, both from Roman governing authorities and town mobs. Many were martyred in just such circumstances. Sporadic but widespread official anti-Christian persecutions during the first three centuries AD resulted in the deaths of countless thousands of ordinary Christians. Surely Ed has heard of the men, women, and children thrown to the lions simply for refusing to deny Christ?"
I have been a consistent reader of Captain’s Quarters for over three years and have been usually pleased by what Captain Ed had to say when he would post on matters relating to Catholicism. This though was not one of them. Especially wrong-headed was his saying "Christianity did not survive because of martyrdom; it survived despite it, and the martyrs prepared themselves for the task." "…who argues that religious fanaticism must be fought with more religious fanaticism." and "not by mindlessly dying for Christianity." This to me seems to be a slander of the martyrs and a relativistic equivocation between giving all for Christ and true fanaticism.
I certainly doubt that Saint Thomas More saw himself as mindlessly dying. He certainly did not run towards it and did what he could to avoid it, but he would not betray his conscience to be let go. To play along and sign a document so that he may go home. Most Catholics when reading stories of the martyrs wonder how they would react in the same situation. If he would have had Captain Ed as a counselor and took his advice he would have betrayed his own conscience and there would likely be no St. Thomas More. St. Thomas More is someone Captain Ed has called one of his heroes so there seems to be some confusion in his own thought.
Many Catholics when reading stories of the martyrs wonder how they would react in the same situation. We can easily imagine our own weakness when facing a convert or die situation. What we can’t usually imagine though is the grace that God gives those martyrs in these situations. It is not just a matter of preparedness, unless you see growth in holiness as preparedness.
Jimmy Akin previously took up this topic of martyrdom and with his usual skill writes on The Martyr’s Dilemma.
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It’s simple really. You aren’t allowed to lie… ever.
In the case of St. Thomas More, it’s interesting to note that — at least, as it was presented in “Man for All SEasons” and in his biography written by Ackroyd” — he made legitimate use of his legal knowledge to protect himself. Because of how skillfully he defended himself during his own trial, there would have been no reason to execute him had Richard Rich not committed perjury during the trial. But Thomas More did not hesitate to die for his faith when it was clear that his death was inevitable.
Quote:”Jimmy Akin previously took up this topic of martyrdom and with his usual skill.”
Yes, Jimmy did a good job there. I especially liked his admonition not to get anxious about how one might react when presented with the challenge of martyrdom. He said that Jesus urged us not to think about what we would say when confronted in a persecution arena, but that he promised that the Holy Spirit would give us words for the moment. He went on to say that we would receive the power to make the right decision when challenged with martyrdom.
I myself have gone over the question if I would be ready to be a martyr many times, as I am sure most of us have. My doubts are now on hold realizing that when the time is right the Holy Spirit will be with me in a supernatural way.
Quote:”Jimmy Akin previously took up this topic of martyrdom and with his usual skill.”
Yes, Jimmy did a good job there. I especially liked his admonition not to get anxious about how one might react when presented with the challenge of martyrdom. He said that Jesus urged us not to think about what we would say when confronted in a persecution arena, but that he promised that the Holy Spirit would give us words for the moment. He went on to say that we would receive the power to make the right decision when challenged with martyrdom.
I myself have gone over the question if I would be ready to be a martyr many times, as I am sure most of us have. My doubts are now on hold realizing that when the time is right the Holy Spirit will be with me in a supernatural way.
Umnnhhh…I haven’t been all THAT impressed when CptEddie remarks on Catholicism. This is not the first time he’s blogged silliness about the Church.
IIRC, last time it was some matter ‘beneath the bellybutton.’