Fr. Sistare asks the obvious questions in response to changing the requirement for priestly celibacy.
Question: Who will financially support the married priest’s family (not happening on current weekly collections!)? Question: Where are these families supposed to live…in a rectory with a celibate priest? Question: What sort of unity will exist in the presbyterate if some are married and others are celibate?
Just a few questions some should ponder before they jump to so called quick solutions!
This coincides with at thought I had recently of creating a new petition for priestly celibacy for advocates of this discipline change.
| Holy Father, we believe that now is time to open the priesthood to married men.
Many parishes are closing because of the priest shortage and allowing married men to join their celibate brothers in ordained ministry will provide additional millions of Catholics access to the Mass and the sacraments. Making this extraordinary change now will demonstrate that Church leaders listen to the sensus fidelium (the Vatican-II-Spirit-inspired beliefs of the faithful). It will demonstrate that the Church can respond boldly to one of the major challenges that we, the people of God, face together. It will provide much needed hope to many Catholics who feel a deep sense of betrayal and alienation because of the scandal of clergy sex abuse of children and its coverup by many church officials. If this request is followed we will be able to expand just as fast as the Orthodox and Anglicans are currently expanding. Sign the petition: Because I fully support a married priesthood here is my credit card information so a suitable amount can be deducted each month to ensure the priest can support his family. This money will be used for buying/renting appropriate housing since the rectory will not be suitable. Health care, groceries, Catholic schooling and higher education and enough money to sufficiently supply a hopefully large Catholic family. In addition married Bishops will need a sufficiently large allowance so that they make take their families on Ad Limina visits and other occasions. If a Pope decides to get married please deduct a sufficient amount to make over the Papal apartments and to provide his and her popemobiles for Holy Father Family outings.
|
53 comments
right on. I wonder how many will read to the end to realize you’re joking, instead of thinking you lost your mind?
Oh, he’s definitely lost his mind. A parody this rich could only spring from the fertile mind of a lunatic.
Lovely joke, which should belong to the “Put your money where your mouth is” Department.
Of course, in the Orthodox Churches, most married priests are of the “tentmaker” paradigm, whose best example is the Apostle Paul. That is, while they may be given some stipend from the local parish, they are expected to make their own living, and to support their own family. Thus, at least for the Orthodox, the joke above is beside the point.
I will agree with you that attempting to convince the hierarchs of the RC Church of anything by arguing its expediency is beside the point. As the estimable Rocket J. Squirrel would say: That trick never works!. And of course, the various theological moonbats will continue to say: This time for sure!
Bravo Jeff! You hit the nail on the head.
Sign a Petition in Support of Married Priests!
The Curt Jester has a petition on his site for people who want to sign up in support of lifting the ban on married priests. He was inspired to create it, in part, by this blog post, which contains the following questions to ask yourself before you st…
So Jeff, what are you going to do with the name and cc numbers of the MILLIONS of thinking catholics that are going to flock to your site and contribute?
I know they have been iching to help in so many ways, this will be just another example of thier charity.
Brilliant!
I remember in Boy Scouts a married priest was assigned to do services for us. He was bitter about leaving his family on the weekend to go on the campouts. I have also heard that Catholic priests in the military are more likely to go into combat zones because they do not have families.
Hey just a note to let you know that your submit button is not working correctly. Please email me when you get it fixed. OK?
LOL, Useful Idiot. I like your contact info. 😉
Every time I hear people emoting about the benefits of married clergy, I think, “You haven’t spent much time talking with preachers’ families, have you?” (Even the Lutheran minister that married us – back in our pre-Catholic days – confessed to feeling that his family was cheated out of a certain amount of family time by his ministry and that his wife had to shoulder an unfair amount of family responsibility.)
Now that I work in a rectory it is even more apparent that family life and a priestly vocation just won’t work. The priests give so much of themselves…even, theoretically, with more priests to handle the workload, they just wouldn’t be able to “do” both vocations. And I don’t think there are many women with the saintly patience to share their husbands with the rest of the parish at all hours every day of the year. (And some wives might be willing, but I just don’t think it would be fair to kids. Period.)
Jeff,
Hope you paid for extra bandwidth. Most I have referred to this page found it hilarious. (some on one progressive site might not be so amused that they can’t actually submit it, but hey)
Tsk tsk…taking credit card info on a non-encrypted server! *grin*
Hey! What do you mean I have insufficient funds for that transaction?!? Do you think that I’m not a billionaire just because I have a job?
A work of genius!
beautiful. I’ve often wondered how the logistics of the married priesthood were supposed to work for so large a church.
I don’t know; somehow, I just don’t buy (no pun intended) these particular argument for a celibate priesthood.
Every other Christian church handles married clergy; sure, there’s drawbacks, but the sexual and emotional frsutrations of celibacy have theirs too.
Obviously, it’s not as undoable as you’d all like to make it seem.
We ought to stick to the theological and mystical arguments; the practical ones just are not convincing.
Bravo! It just gets better and better.
Along the same sentiment expressed by the good Bishop Cormac: “right to die would become the duty to die,” so to, I think would be this “optional” married priesthood. Should it come to pass that a married priesthood is permitted, how long do you suppose those who chose to remain celibate would be regarded as “real” priests? And wouldn’t it strengthen our culture’s sick drumbeat that celibacy isn’t just weird, it’s downright unhealthy and twisted. Among other things better said by others than myself, the priesthood is a fraternal order. What happens to this fraternity when you have some who opt for marriage, while others remain celibate?
Great post. Although the practical considerations shouldn’t dictate theology, they certainly help us encounter reality! And as an Army Chaplain Candidate (Reserve), I have plenty of close friends who are are Protestant ministers. They’re faced with the same challenges during deployment as their soldiers. Catholic priests — we just pack the ruck and off we go. I was in seminary with a married minister who’s now a priest; he’s a great guy, and I’m glad that he’s a Catholic priest. Is that the solution to a shortage of priests? Not hardly.
Keep up the good work, and pray for vocations!
You Too Can Support Married Priests!
The Curt Jester has started a petition for Married Priests and shows you exactly how “You Too Can Support Married Priests!” … just will cost you a few bucks a month, maybe a bit more than a few, and a few verses from the Bible … but hey, the Bibl…
Cute.
You mention Scripture. But why do you ignore 1 Timothy?
1 This saying is trustworthy: 2 whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task.
2
Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach,
3
not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money.
4
He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity;
5
for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God?
6
He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment. 3
7
He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap.
And, in case you don’t know it, there *are* married priests in the Catholic Church, and if B16 approves the establishment of an Anglican Rite, which he is widely rumored to be open to, look for hundreds more.
Good luck with your arrogance and ignorance, there.
Enjoyed reading your proposed petition — does anyone really think that the liberals in the Church will put their money where their mouth is to support a married clergy?
If there were to be a married clergy, then renewal in the Church would have to come from the religious — we all need the sign value of those who have “renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven,” as Our Lord and St. Paul did.
Keep up the great humor!
Great job! I very much admire your work. Time and time again you take a wonderful perspective on some of the most difficult questions facing the Church.
I reached some conclusions of my own regarding married clergy after watching the Miles Jesu vocation DVD.
http://ivycatholic.blogspot.com/2005/10/soldiers-of-jesus-and-marriage.html
Fr. Ben:
news flash: reform in the Church has ALWAYS come from religious orders. A secular clergy that had the option of being married would only help religious orders, as it clarified their uniqueness.
In my experience, the clegy who are most vigorously opposed to married clergy are gay priests who a)fear their cover will be blown and b)know that their power will be broken once married men enter the scene – and by the way, if you want to break your dreaded Lavendar Mafia…a married diocesan priesthood would probably do it.
And what about that Timothy citation anyway? Good enough for the apostolic era, but not for us?
While it is a matter of discipline and there clearly are Catholic priests in communion with Rome who married, I don’t think it’s the ideal, as St. Paul has pointed out (along with many people who have already commented).
I was just thinking though… if there is approval of married priests in the Roman rite, what would happen to the state of consecrated religious in the Church? What implications would married priesthood have on religious vocations in general?
1.) It is clear from the testimony of scripture that married priests existed and were considered normal.
2.) Other denominations pull it off just fine.
3.) Family suffers with any job. Religious or not.
4.) Congrats to the Lavender Mafia for pulling this all off.
5.) Discipline != Dogma
Nick,
“Other denominations pull it off just fine.”
As a PK I can tell you there are definitely issues.
“3.) Family suffers with any job. Religious or not.”
Ever notice how parish meetings are scheduled for evenings to accomodate working laymen’s schedules?
When the kids are in school during the day and dad is gone in the evening, when ARE they going to spend time with him? Personal experience speaking.
Maggie, I’m certain I couldn’t answer your questions to your satisfaction, but I thank you for answering mine (how would those who chose to remain celibate be regarded?) so quickly.
You despise them.
You always know how to give us a laugh in the midst of the lunacy amongst us!!! Keep fighting the good fight!!!
Padre
This was great, Jeff. It reminds me of the shock I had earlier this year when an Orthodox priest was waiting on me in the local diner. Little did I know that the Greek Orthodox presbyterate on Long Island has to supplement their income by taking side jobs! But, evidently that is the case, not only here, but elsewhere.
miss (or mrs.) maggie,
how could you support married priests (or religious) aren’t priests christs “commisioners” on earth? Jesus didn’t marry, priests follow his examples. The church would not grow if priests married. If priests married we wouldn’t be much different than baptist or such. soon we won’t call them priest or father anymore, they would be minister or somthing. If we let this awful thing happen, the whole church will change.the church that has never failed for over 2000 years will be forgotten, let’s leave it the same! if you agree, let me hear it!P.S- I’m just a kid, I want to hear from any other kids who hear this)
I did not find the “Lavendar Mofia” comment at all tasteful or accurate. Repent and believe the Good News.
For those of you who do not know, here is a little info on the history of married priests (and deacons) in the Catholic Church.
Never has a priest or deacon been permitted to marry; one must already be married prior to ordination. The only exception has been for those whose wives passed away and left them with young children (a very practical and pastoral reason). This is also true in the Anglican church but can be dispensed. Don’t you find it interesting, at least, that the married could get ordained, but the ordained could not get married?
The requirement for celibacy is unique to the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church, i.e. the western rite. Westerners are obsessed with the self, and celibacy is a sign to the world. look at the history, celibacy came in for practical reasons – Church property – it’s the western greed. The Holy Spirit keeps the hierarchy in favour of celibacy for a different reason today; thank God for the Holy Spirit, God’s Will is done. To ‘give in’ and ordain married men as the norm in the Roman Rite would be to say that the world is right – for one, we can’t do without sex, we need more than to be the visible groom for the marriage of Christ and His Church.
As a Vicar of Christ, I am married – to His Church.
Fr. Paul,
Right On!
I too, hope to be married to christ as a nun…and it would disgrace our church if we allow this awful thing to happen! Let me hear your opinions…speak out! be an active member…I am only 14…we all should share how we feel!
Well said Fr. Paul…..well said.
P.S
let’s hope that our most holy father won’t let this happen…he is the vicar of Christ! he was chosen by Christ, so we can and should trust him and Him!
I absolutly agree with Fr. Paul…well said…I’m glad that so many are opposed to this! Only…shall we all pray for this maggie…I feel dredfull..can’t she see that satin is promoting this deed. Well we can feel secure that our holy father won’t allow this…why? well, God doesn’t want this, and he is Christs vicar on Earth…that’s why! Right on!, Sara, for speaking my mind oh so very well, yes, I am only 15, and also wish to be married to Christ as a nun! and shame on those who would allow this. Why, upon entering a convent don’t we take vows. What would be the meaning of vows anyway…God Bless…keep on protesting!
Calm down now ladies. You make it sound like married priests and deacons are evil. Don’t forget that a significant part of the Body of Christ always had and still has a married clergy.
Why is this? As I said above, it is the difference between the eastern and the western mentality – the west NEEDS a celibate clergy.
As to married religious (Brothers, Sisters, Monks and Nuns [the latter two being Brothers and Sisters who live and work in monasteries rather than ‘in the world’]) that is something completely different. By definition they are celibate and married to Christ as His Bride.
If Ordination is opened up to married men, then in obedience we accept it as the Will of God. For those who are hoping, pushing, lobbyng, etc. for this discipline to change in the Latin Church…don’t hold your breath, celibacy has too much to offer the world for it to be made an option.
true, very true, I got carried away! If it is Gods will, so be it!
How we should respond:
1. Pray for an increase to priestly vocations. Pray for our seminarians as well.
2. Pray for our priests.
3. Trust in God and look to His guidance of the Church through the Magisterium, Sacred Scripture, and Sacred Tradition.
Don’t forget to pray for vocations and for our priests! We can whine and complain all we want, but really there’s not much we can do about it – we’re much better off seeking divine intervention.
“Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.”
(Phil 4:6)
My 2 cents as a former pagan, you want to stop conversions of anyone with an upbringing such as my own by all means make it possible for a nun and priest to marry and then put them front and center(with another priest marrying them). The very idea of it is insane and you can bet the priesthood of the church would wither like a strangled limb. Ohh and Ive met to many preachers daughters to think following the protestant ways are a great idea.
re: East-West mentality
Even the Eastern Rite values celibacy. Only celibates can be bishops.
“Good luck with your arrogance…”
I thought I was the only one who spoke to mirrors. FWIW, such drivel comes off as self-righteous pap. It does nothing to change hearts and minds.
I CERTAINLY WOULD SIGN A PETITTION FOR CELIBACY TO THE HOLY SEE!
hey sara, I’m 16 and I’m still discerning my vocation. pray for me!
married priests and deacons are alright as long as they were married prior to ordination. my dad himself is a deacon, so I barely get to see him. he’s at work all week while I’m at school and doing Church related things on the weekends, so I only see him early in the morning when he takes me to school and late at night when he comes home from work. It’s kind of hard to get to know one’s father if he’s gone all the time. He doesn’t shirk his duties to us or to the Church, but he gets really tired from working practically around the clock.
If married priesthood (after ordination) became accepted, then I can imagine how marriages would be even more broken up than they are now. Some men would do it, but wouldn’t truly be dedicated to it, and their wives might not be ready to have their husbands gone all of the time because of his responsibilities to the Church. Impatient wives would get divorces because the husband would never be home, children would grow up almost never seeing their father, and available priests would become harder to find. They would either be slacking on one side of their responsibilities or the other if they weren’t dedicated enough to both. And parishoners probably wouldn’t give enough money to support the priest/deacon and his family, so they’d have to get jobs that take away from family time and Church time. Marriage after ordination is just an overall bad idea, and it shouldn’t be done.
dear anoynous,
I’ll pray about your vocation!
well, our decon to our old church was married, and it’s not bad if they are married prior to their ordination. But I really don’t like the idea of preists marrying after their ordination, But if God wills it, then we must not disobey, God Bless!
I resigned my Protestant pastorate to convert to Rome and my whole family is coming with, bless God. I still find I am stirred deeply by every prayer for priests and vocations at nearly every Mass. I am still trying to discern God’s calling in my life but I can tell you, even unemployed as I am, my family is glad to see me again and I them. Not one person in my family was involved as a high level volunteer and not one of them, as fine as those years were, is not glad now to have a renewed focuse on our own little church. If God is going to call me into something like a permanent diaconate we are going to need special graces without a doubt.
I do not see myself as a priest, though others might. I do recognize that God has set me apart and as much as I would like to gloss over this I cannot, not even by converting to Rome but what this means is still a curious thing to me.
::thrive!
Owen
I certainly hope all of you opponents to a married clergy sit on your hands and refrain from applauding when Anglican priests convert and are ordained, while married. I hope you write a letter of disapproval to the bishop who does such a thing every time one of them ordains a married man.
Do you?
Jon,
Making married clergy the norm in the Roman Rite, and Ordaining married men who have converted into Roman Catholicism and who were previously ordained ministers is not the same thing.
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